Article: The Wild Should Pay Marco Rossi Now

[WheelSnipeCelly]

33 minutes ago, Dango said:

You almost have to wait for a disgruntled player that wants to move type situation to get  an upgrade

And even then, players don't always want to come here — e.g. Patrik Laine and Phil Kessel both vetoing potential trades (not that either necessarily were big upgrades).

[Protec]

It really doesn't matter that much. MN is not desperate. Rossi is under team control so the only reason to sign him sooner is if you think the price would go too high.

If you signed him soon and got a nice contract, you can still trade him. If you wait, that's just part of the Summer work like any other off-season. 

I thought it was telling that a bunch of NA guys on the Philly team that has been crummy this year whomped the Wild. Based on the standings MN should have handled the Flyers easily. I still think the Wild need more of a tough, physical guy like Ek as their second punch at center. Sorry to say, nobody is afraid to lineup against Rossi. Sure he's a playmaking/scoring threat but I tend to agree the playoffs are a different animal. The refs can be worse than normal and physical hockey is the name of the game. Rossi is a good player but he's the top tradable guy too.

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

You're obsessed with the dude's height to the point where you can't see anything else, man.

Au contraire!

i think you are refusing to hear reason just because it goes against some of your previously defined analytical stat output that predicted Rossi's peak performance, yet focused only on certain productivity aspects of a hockey player without much cumulative analysis that would combine a player's worth for a true measurement of his value to his line mates and team. analytics and stats are good - but they still do not tell the full story! but fear not - you can still trust a good old eye view and being honest with your self. 

hockey is a physical game that intensifies the further the season progresses, reaching almost a boiling point towards the playoffs. you have to have toughness and cohesiveness as a unit; player depend on each other as the battle gets more and more heated. there are of course times when tiny players have had lead roles and kicked ass, but that is out of norm. and usually they play with larger teammates to offset the size disadvantage. 

that's a reality of physical sport like hockey, size does in fact matter. we have seen it before with kaprizov being handled like a punching bag in the playoffs. has the playoffs become a different beast? is it more finesse and grace? no it's not. 

it is unheard of to have such a small line win in the playoffs. what it does mean is that our mvp will be continuously targeted and will be in danger every damn shift.

do you know why rossi plays on kaprizov's line? it is because he cannot play anywhere else on this team! billy knows it! if he was as good as you make him out to be - that contract would have been his a year ago. but there is no contract.

kaprizov has to pay the prize and baby him. he can pass, he can deflect a shot and score a little. good. but that can be done by Harty. but you know what - i think Kap would prefer Harty. he knows the guy would have his back and offer at least some deterrence.... while looking at zuccy and rossi - the most they can offer is idiotic stick whack.

it just does not work. there is no precedence that line consisting of 5'8'' dudes can successfully drive winning or remotely succeed in the playoffs. kaprizov knows that. he's been thru this his two times in the playoffs. he knows what will happen to him if he makes it this time with this  line. he needs help. rossi WILL be the one to get him help, but as a trade package. that's the only way.  

[mnhockeyfan03]

Sorry Tony I don’t understand why you keep defending Rossi.  He is not good or what we need.  Please watch these games closer.  We need our media to be unbiased and our tv coverage is all homers and this outlet is as well.  We need to demand more and sorry Rossi is not the answer.  He is undersized and slow.  If they extend him they are making a big mistake.  We need a 1C, top 6 winger, top 4 right dman, spurgeon gone however that happens and Gus gone.  Yurov is in addition to this.  Then we have a real team.  Right now we are not although our record shows otherwise but just wait until we play the central teams consistently we are going to get worked over.  I actually like the Foligno, Trenin, Freddie line.  But that should be the 4th line.  Ohgren right now does not belong on a nhl roster.  

[MacGyver]

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think Kap would prefer Harty. he knows the guy would have his back and offer at least some deterrence....

I agree with most of your above post with the exception of this. I think the idea of needing one player to protect another is not even a practical approach of why you would want a specific player on a line with another. Number one if the player you are trying to protect gets run anything your enforcer is going to do is after the fact. Your protected player already took the hit as most NHl'ers are expected to do. If he gets a serious injury the damage is already done. Most serious injuries happen without intent anyhow. Besides in Kaprizov's case I think he can take care of himself. 

You can't protect yourself from a dirty hit like say knee on knee or elbow to the face and that's what the refs are supposed to be for. Most players who play dirty are going to do so regardless if you have a entire line of nothing but gorilla's patrolling the ice. These are all men playing in this game and I don't think anyone is that intimidated by anyone else.  

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

I agree with most of your above post with the exception of this. I think the idea of needing one player to protect another is not even a practical approach of why you would want a specific player on a line with another. Number one if the player you are trying to protect gets run anything your enforcer is going to do is after the fact. Your protected player already took the hit as most NHl'ers are expected to do. If he gets a serious injury the damage is already done. Most serious injuries happen without intent anyhow. Besides in Kaprizov's case I think he can take care of himself. 

You can't protect yourself from a dirty hit like say knee on knee or elbow to the face and that's what the refs are supposed to be for. Most players who play dirty are going to do so regardless if you have a entire line of nothing but gorilla's patrolling the ice. These are all men playing in this game and I don't think anyone is that intimidated by anyone else.  

Number one if the player you are trying to protect gets run anything your enforcer is going to do is after the fact. i'm more of the opinion that protection needs to come in the form of deterrence, meaning having your mates with you that have the spark (imagine tkachuk barreling into you to protect Kap vs Rossi - your reaction goes from F#CK to HAHA). that protection has to be immediate, not five minutes later or barking from the bench. we've seen it before that having the most feared enforcer (reeves) does nothing to deter the brutality if that enforcer is parked on the bench.

Your protected player already took the hit as most NHl'ers are expected to do. If he gets a serious injury the damage is already done. yeap, no foligno or trenin (i don't know if both can still even fight) can fix the damage that would be done. that's why it's vital to do your best to deter it. rossi and zuccy invite physicality, not deter it - that's why the assault on kap will only intensify as we get further into the season.

Besides in Kaprizov's case I think he can take care of himself. yes, but do you want your superstar to do that? would you want mcdavid to do that?

You can't protect yourself from a dirty hit like say knee on knee or elbow to the face and that's what the refs are supposed to be for. Most players who play dirty are going to do so regardless if you have a entire line of nothing but gorilla's patrolling the ice. I am not talking about goons like Bertuzzi or Cooke, it's about playing dirty while staying within the rules. Suter style. Brute style. We had NO answer to Suter. He kept beating Kap and beating and beating and beating .... that is what's ahead.

[Pewterschmidt]

52 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Number one if the player you are trying to protect gets run anything your enforcer is going to do is after the fact. i'm more of the opinion that protection needs to come in the form of deterrence, meaning having your mates with you that have the spark (imagine tkachuk barreling into you to protect Kap vs Rossi - your reaction goes from F#CK to HAHA). that protection has to be immediate, not five minutes later or barking from the bench. we've seen it before that having the most feared enforcer (reeves) does nothing to deter the brutality if that enforcer is parked on the bench.

Your protected player already took the hit as most NHl'ers are expected to do. If he gets a serious injury the damage is already done. yeap, no foligno or trenin (i don't know if both can still even fight) can fix the damage that would be done. that's why it's vital to do your best to deter it. rossi and zuccy invite physicality, not deter it - that's why the assault on kap will only intensify as we get further into the season.

Besides in Kaprizov's case I think he can take care of himself. yes, but do you want your superstar to do that? would you want mcdavid to do that?

You can't protect yourself from a dirty hit like say knee on knee or elbow to the face and that's what the refs are supposed to be for. Most players who play dirty are going to do so regardless if you have a entire line of nothing but gorilla's patrolling the ice. I am not talking about goons like Bertuzzi or Cooke, it's about playing dirty while staying within the rules. Suter style. Brute style. We had NO answer to Suter. He kept beating Kap and beating and beating and beating .... that is what's ahead.

Shout out to ODC for finding the pic of Suter being cheap.  Is Protec offering a weekend workshop?  This is next level blogging (if it's still called blogging)

[M_Nels]

On 10/26/2024 at 9:15 PM, RedLake said:

Package Rossi for a legit 1c. Problem solved. Kap signs a new deal.

And..who might that be? What team is going to let a legit 1C go?

[M_Nels]

On 10/25/2024 at 3:52 PM, OldDutchChip said:

I think trading Rossi as a package for Tkachuk or Tuch is a move that takes us 2 steps back. I think it's realistic given where Ottawa and Buffalo is; we may loose Rossi and one of Zeev/Yurov - but you know - that's OK. 

Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to lose Rossi AND either Zeev or Yurov for Tkachuk or Tuch???? Rossi, and a 2nd and 1 lower level prospect ok fine but why would you want to trade a projected top pairing d-man when we complain out our d depth/age and don't have much in the way of Iowa and almost a certain top 6 player for a rental that we probably can't afford long-term? 

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to lose Rossi AND either Zeev or Yurov for Tkachuk or Tuch???? Rossi, and a 2nd and 1 lower level prospect ok fine but why would you want to trade a projected top pairing d-man when we complain out our d depth/age and don't have much in the way of Iowa and almost a certain top 6 player for a rental that we probably can't afford long-term? 

because you have to pay up. no one will take rossi for these guys. 

[M_Nels]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

because you have to pay up. no one will take rossi for these guys. 

Right, that's why I put Rossi a 2nd and a low(ish) level prospect but why would you want to trade a d-man that in all likely hood will get pulled up after the NCAA season like Faber did. Our d depth and lack of promise in Iowa gets talked about almost ad nauseam around here and you want to toss him for Tuch or Tkachuk??? 

Edited October 28 by M_Nels
Spelling

[M_Nels]

5 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

likely hood

likelihood** edited for another spelling mistake but missed that one

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Right, that's why I put Rossi a 2nd and a low(ish) level prospect but why would you want to trade a d-man that in all likely hood will get pulled up after the NCAA season like Faber did. Our d depth and lack of promise in Iowa gets talked about almost ad nauseam around here and you want to toss him for Tuch or Tkachuk??? 

because you have to create a real trade scenario that would be appealing for both sides. throwing rossi with freddy, trenin and daemon hunt is not realistic. either of yurov or zeev has the appeal, maybe for sabres we can get away with building our trade package surrounding Rossi+Wally then other pieces to make it work, thus saving Yurov and Zeev. 

[M_Nels]

7 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

because you have to create a real trade scenario that would be appealing for both sides. throwing rossi with freddy, trenin and daemon hunt is not realistic. either of yurov or zeev has the appeal, maybe for sabres we can get away with building our trade package surrounding Rossi+Wally then other pieces to make it work, thus saving Yurov and Zeev. 

Then where do you go for a goalie that’s worth a salt and cheap to be behind/ahead of Gus after Flower retires?

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Then where do you go for a goalie that’s worth a salt and cheap to be behind/ahead of Gus after Flower retires?

you draft him or sign him. 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

Why in the wide, wide world of sports would you want to lose Rossi AND either Zeev or Yurov for Tkachuk or Tuch????

Instead of paying top dollar for a premiere NHL power forward, I'd rather see Guerin create value by making another Lauko type transaction.  Low $, high value.  Buy the next Tai Domi (he's small but he got that dog in him) who can intimidate and execute an ice hockey play.

Edited October 28 by Pewterschmidt

[OldDutchChip]

boot rossi and replace him with radulov pronto!

[M_Nels]

28 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

you draft him or sign him. 

If you drafted a goalie 1st round in 2025 the chances of him playing that season are between slim and none. You sign a re-tread then where does that get you? It puts you behind even though you got your power forward rental. You sign a guy like Gus who was a gamble (and unpopular at the time) and hope he's just as good and/or better than Gus is right now which is also unlikely.

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

If you drafted a goalie 1st round in 2025 the chances of him playing that season are between slim and none. You sign a re-tread then where does that get you? It puts you behind even though you got your power forward rental. You sign a guy like Gus who was a gamble (and unpopular at the time) and hope he's just as good and/or better than Gus is right now which is also unlikely.

chances that Wally is who he was touted to be is also slim. at this point, it might be safe to roll with gus and pick up someone to back him up. while his stock is still high from being #1 ranked goalie - i think it may be worthwhile to sell high. sabres are stacked with D but maybe they lack in goalie prospects? 

[Pewterschmidt]

12 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

while his stock is still high from being #1 ranked goalie - i think it may be worthwhile to sell high.

Shots fired on Wally.  While I’m not ready to trade him I do think the results so far warrant questions.  Like WTF Wally?   You are our whitest knight that’s supposed to make everything better.  With yurov at #2.  We fans have been pumping your tires for years now. 

[OldDutchChip]

31 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Shots fired on Wally.  While I’m not ready to trade him I do think the results so far warrant questions.  Like WTF Wally?   You are our whitest knight that’s supposed to make everything better.  With yurov at #2.  We fans have been pumping your tires for years now. 

yeah i am worried about him. i know the saying about goalie taking time - but dude should have already taken over the reign. it shouldn't be hard to take out gus and fleury. i suppose he'll have a chance soon enough with both gus and fleury likely going from top 3 to bottom 3 within the next few days....who knew law of average will come into play? weird.

 

[Tony Abbott]

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Au contraire!

i think you are refusing to hear reason just because it goes against some of your previously defined analytical stat output that predicted Rossi's peak performance, yet focused only on certain productivity aspects of a hockey player without much cumulative analysis that would combine a player's worth for a true measurement of his value to his line mates and team. analytics and stats are good - but they still do not tell the full story! but fear not - you can still trust a good old eye view and being honest with your self. 

I can tell you that I watch a lot of games, and have gotten to see him in person multiple times. He passes the eye test. He's tough, he gets to the net, he engages in and wins board battles, he makes brilliant subtle plays throughout the game.

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

that's a reality of physical sport like hockey, size does in fact matter. we have seen it before with kaprizov being handled like a punching bag in the playoffs. has the playoffs become a different beast? is it more finesse and grace? no it's not. 

it is unheard of to have such a small line win in the playoffs. what it does mean is that our mvp will be continuously targeted and will be in danger every damn shift.

Tampa Bay had Brayden Point, Ondrej Palat, and Tyler Johnson/Yanni Gourde on one of their lines for an ECF run -- all playing together at the same time. Didn't seem to hurt them.

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

do you know why rossi plays on kaprizov's line? it is because he cannot play anywhere else on this team! billy knows it! if he was as good as you make him out to be - that contract would have been his a year ago. but there is no contract.

Rossi had 21 goals playing with Zuccarello and Marcus Johansson last year, that's a silly thing to say.

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

kaprizov has to pay the prize and baby him. he can pass, he can deflect a shot and score a little. good. but that can be done by Harty. but you know what - i think Kap would prefer Harty. he knows the guy would have his back and offer at least some deterrence.... while looking at zuccy and rossi - the most they can offer is idiotic stick whack.

it just does not work. there is no precedence that line consisting of 5'8'' dudes can successfully drive winning or remotely succeed in the playoffs. kaprizov knows that. he's been thru this his two times in the playoffs. he knows what will happen to him if he makes it this time with this  line. he needs help. rossi WILL be the one to get him help, but as a trade package. that's the only way.  

Hartman's been the center for Kaprizov in the playoffs in the last three years, where he's getting beaten up at every turn and targeted on a nightly basis. Hartman can't stop it, so why does Kaprizov care if it's him or Rossi in that spot? We've seen Hartman fail as the playoff center for Kaprizov three more times than we've seen Rossi fail in that role.

[OldDutchChip]

48 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

I can tell you that I watch a lot of games, and have gotten to see him in person multiple times. He passes the eye test. He's tough, he gets to the net, he engages in and wins board battles, he makes brilliant subtle plays throughout the game.

Tampa Bay had Brayden Point, Ondrej Palat, and Tyler Johnson/Yanni Gourde on one of their lines for an ECF run -- all playing together at the same time. Didn't seem to hurt them.

Rossi had 21 goals playing with Zuccarello and Marcus Johansson last year, that's a silly thing to say.

Hartman's been the center for Kaprizov in the playoffs in the last three years, where he's getting beaten up at every turn and targeted on a nightly basis. Hartman can't stop it, so why does Kaprizov care if it's him or Rossi in that spot? We've seen Hartman fail as the playoff center for Kaprizov three more times than we've seen Rossi fail in that role.

of course Rossi is tough - he is still a hockey player. he is just extremely small one. 

tampa's brayden point and palat and gourde were a little taller and meatier akin to kaprizov, especially point. and point is not rossi - if that is your comparison, that is one flawed way of looking at players. point is like a better version of prime parise whereas rossi is a similar version of pierre marc bouchard. 

21 goals is good. i am not saying he should not play in the NHL. he just should not play on the wild because he does not fit. 

both hartman and rossi are not enough i agree, but at least hartman can have a chance. rossi does not have any chance. hence Kap probably prefers someone he doesn't have to baby or better yet - package rossi and get him someone who can do that. then MAYBE he will consider resigning.  but maybe we should instead build a team with rossi at the core? yeah!

 

Edited October 28 by OldDutchChip

[Tony Abbott]

Rossi's a 5-foot-9 Eriksson Ek. That fits on any team.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

Rossi's a 5-foot-9 Eriksson Ek. That fits on any team.

Ummmm no.  Marchand yes