Article: The Wild Should Pay Marco Rossi Now

[Citizen Strife]

Did you forget the team is still down $13m worth of players?  That's a Boldy+Brodin or Boldy+Ek+Rossi worth of money to spend on Kap's contract, Rossi's contract, AND Yurov (if he's any good at all), and take Spurgeon's contract and eventually move that to Buium (if HE'S any good) so the team can keep winning AFTER this year.

Going all in doesn't work: team tried that every year in the Fletcher era to put them in this fucking situation.

There's been a method to Guerin's madness, and it's not about selling the farm too early.

Edited October 25 by Citizen Strife

[Tony Abbott]

3 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

kaprizov played with hartzy who had career high, should we give him 7mm too?

He was older with a significantly worse history/pedigree. The difference with Rossi is that a lot of people believed he would look like this version of himself, and he's still on an upward trajectory.

[Enforceror]

Would having a big forward on Kaps line actually prevent him from getting banged up though? Seems to me if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Not like someone can just follow him around protecting him. And if someone tries to drop gloves on him, we have a big defenseman ready to go. Just my two cents.

[OldDutchChip]

26 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

He was older with a significantly worse history/pedigree. The difference with Rossi is that a lot of people believed he would look like this version of himself, and he's still on an upward trajectory.

so we are going to penalize hartman for being a 4th line grinder when he scores 34 goals? he wasn't supposed to do that? that seems harsh - he could be an outlier. he was effective enough with Kap and Zuccy before getting hurt. so i dunno, that's a different debate altogether. 

i don't think i am being unreasonable in seeing rossi with a more lead role. and that needs to be away from our golden boy. then you can offer him your money, i am fine if its going to cost us more - but i'd like to know what i am getting with him. i am also fine bridging him. if harty comes back, i'd move him back to top line, and give rossi the lead to center 3rd line and observe his growth. 

but reality is i think he is being shopped and billy knows that putting him with Kap means driving his value up and up. look i can play with Kap and be serviceable. it's a point that needs to be stressed - Kap is playing unreal. good for Rossi to collect points with him, but this will end soon. He either is traded or is dropped down a line or two and attempts to drive his own line. 

[OldDutchChip]

50 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Did you forget the team is still down $13m worth of players?  That's a Boldy+Brodin or Boldy+Ek+Rossi worth of money to spend on Kap's contract, Rossi's contract, AND Yurov (if he's any good at all), and take Spurgeon's contract and eventually move that to Buium (if HE'S any good) so the team can keep winning AFTER this year.

Going all in doesn't work: team tried that every year in the Fletcher era to put them in this fucking situation.

There's been a method to Guerin's madness, and it's not about selling the farm too early.

another cap mention - yes the team has bad money tied into two bad players (Parise/Suter). these two players are not WORTH the money. there lies the core of the problem.

Would it help if they were playing? if not, let's stop mentioning cap buy out. its not like we bought out Boldy and Faber. We bought out equivalent of Vinny L and Merrill. they weren't going to help. 

at the same rate we can start crying about trenin and foligno and freddy g and mj and midds, oh we are hurting - if only we didn't have trenin (4) foligno (4) freddy g (2) mj (2) and midds (3.5) dead money (but i guess still skating around .... = $15.5mm) - cause that is what is really equals too. they could be replaced at a MINIMUM. but since they play and Parise/Suter do not, well we can always play the cap card. nah enough is enough - the issue is our spending. So maybe we want to be smart finally and see our money spend more wisely? ensure (a) investment is sound (b) they do not interfere with our overall picture and (c) we don't repeat the cycle that we have proven that we repeat every damn time. 

as for guerin's madness - some of it is in fact madness, but if he is playing the game the way  i think it's being played, he's got a crazy good plan. 

 

 

[OldDutchChip]

21 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

Would having a big forward on Kaps line actually prevent him from getting banged up though? Seems to me if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Not like someone can just follow him around protecting him. And if someone tries to drop gloves on him, we have a big defenseman ready to go. Just my two cents.

i haven't seen Midds or Bogo fight in ages. but seems a good bet to make that opposing players would pause a bit more when they see Tkachuk lining up in front of Kap vs Rossi

 

[1Brotherbill]

23 hours ago, UK_Soldier said:

Exactly. Again, aside from potential centers what exactly do the Wild have? Has Rossi done anything but demonstrate he will continue to improve and be the best player he can be? 

Does he need to be better?  It would be nice if he was.  But right now he is the second best center on the team.  A point per game person.  Someone who sees the rink well.  Is surprisingly physical for his size. He could play 20 years in this league and not be any better than a point per game player.  

By the way there are about 50 point per game players in the league on any given year.  We have a top 50 player in the league. 

[mnhockeyfan03]

Everyone has to realize sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good and what you need.  Is Rossi a good player?  Sure. Is he what we need in the playoffs in the west?  No.  No need to pay a guy 5-7mm when we can use him to get something back that will help us.  For those saying he will help us in the regular season and get to the playoffs, that’s the MN sports fan stuff that has to stop.  Start demanding more.  The goal should be championships!!!

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Everyone has to realize sometimes you have to give up something good to get something good and what you need.  Is Rossi a good player?  Sure. Is he what we need in the playoffs in the west?  No.  No need to pay a guy 5-7mm when we can use him to get something back that will help us.  For those saying he will help us in the regular season and get to the playoffs, that’s the MN sports fan stuff that has to stop.  Start demanding more.  The goal should be championships!!!

How can you say Rossi isn't what they need in the playoffs in the West 1) when we have never seen him in the playoffs before and 2) He's basically the only player on this roster who hasn't been part of the Wild's past several first-round flops?

[Tony Abbott]

5 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

so we are going to penalize hartman for being a 4th line grinder when he scores 34 goals? he wasn't supposed to do that? that seems harsh - he could be an outlier. he was effective enough with Kap and Zuccy before getting hurt. so i dunno, that's a different debate altogether. 

i don't think i am being unreasonable in seeing rossi with a more lead role. and that needs to be away from our golden boy. then you can offer him your money, i am fine if its going to cost us more - but i'd like to know what i am getting with him. i am also fine bridging him. if harty comes back, i'd move him back to top line, and give rossi the lead to center 3rd line and observe his growth. 

but reality is i think he is being shopped and billy knows that putting him with Kap means driving his value up and up. look i can play with Kap and be serviceable. it's a point that needs to be stressed - Kap is playing unreal. good for Rossi to collect points with him, but this will end soon. He either is traded or is dropped down a line or two and attempts to drive his own line. 

I guess I'd ask -- what is Rossi not getting to do that you'd want him to do? He's part of the transition game, carrying the puck into the offensive zone. He's not getting shut out of the passing game, with Kaprizov and Zuccarello only looking to each other. He has 10 shots at 5-on-5, compared to Kaprizov/Zucc's 12. It doesn't look like he's taking a backseat to me, at all.

As for Hartman, it's not penalizing Hartman so much as acknowledging that he wasn't likely to continue quite that high level of play. And he wasn't! Still a good player, still got his bag, just wasn't a top-line center.

[Pewterschmidt]

14 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

well with that thinking we should just end the season now. nothing else to do - we dethroned last year's champs. or maybe  we should extend fleury because he was good last game? maybe an overreaction?

common my friend - you know full well that playoffs heats up and you want to give your player the best chance at success. currently wild are riding a hot streak. why not try to tap into it and see how far this streak can go. vegas are a master class in that. they act savagely in times, but with a plan in mind to drive results faster than most people are accustom to. that's skills and balls.

that's what i want out of my team. yes it be shrewd move to package a ppg player in Rossi, but what if we can pluck away Brady Tkachuk. You going to tell me that a line with him Zuccy and Kap is not f#cking scary? And i don't care he is not a true Center. F that. That line with EK and Boldy can drive us all the way to SC. 

Like Accept sang balls to the wall and f#ck it all - or something like that!

You got you’re balls to the wall man - B Scott

[OldDutchChip]

8 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

I guess I'd ask -- what is Rossi not getting to do that you'd want him to do? He's part of the transition game, carrying the puck into the offensive zone. He's not getting shut out of the passing game, with Kaprizov and Zuccarello only looking to each other. He has 10 shots at 5-on-5, compared to Kaprizov/Zucc's 12. It doesn't look like he's taking a backseat to me, at all.

As for Hartman, it's not penalizing Hartman so much as acknowledging that he wasn't likely to continue quite that high level of play. And he wasn't! Still a good player, still got his bag, just wasn't a top-line center.

what is Rossi not getting to do that you'd want him to do?  be a number 1 center to support Kap in the playoffs. give me a clear answer YES or NO - do you think a number 1 line consisting of Zuccy Rossi and Kap can succeed in the playoffs? i acknowledge that he is doing fine collecting points in the regular season, JUST LIKE Harty did. But we have to look at his game when it matters most. If Zuccy wasn't here, i'd be more willing to give him a pass, but Zuccy is, and reality is - you cannot go deep in the playoffs (hell just try winning a game or surviving a shift) with such a baby line. So YES or NO Tony?

...wasn't likely to continue quite that high level of play. And he wasn't! Guess i am not seeing much difference in play and results from Rossi to Harty when both are with Kap. Or are you saying when Harty moved down to center our goons, that his production dipped? Well that's what i want to find out from Rossi - can he be a driver of his own line or is he just along for the ride? Why not give him Foligno and Ohgren and see what he got? You think he will be a PPG player with 7MM tag? 

[Pewterschmidt]

I really like Rossi’s production right now and he’s trending up and to the right.  I agree with Old Dirty Bastard on Rossi though.  He’s too small for playoff hockey.  We’ve seen this movie many times.  He’ll go full Kunin in playoffs when the big boys come out to play.  
I’m in for a sell high on Rossi situation at TDL this year. 

[OldDutchChip]

28 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I really like Rossi’s production right now and he’s trending up and to the right.  I agree with Old Dirty Bastard on Rossi though.  He’s too small for playoff hockey.  We’ve seen this movie many times.  He’ll go full Kunin in playoffs when the big boys come out to play.  
I’m in for a sell high on Rossi situation at TDL this year. 

totally!

putting emotions to the side - Rossi is just the odd man out. and is likely the only one who we can use to improve our team to go that much closer to the goal. and that's the way shrewd hockey is played out. 

[Pewterschmidt]

And the fact that Guerin has told the world he doesn’t want Rossi

if they do trade Rossi it’ll beg the question why TF did you draft him.  Did you think he’d grow?

 Keep him with 97.  Pump and dump Rossi.  
I don’t dislike Rossi, I just don’t think he’s playoff hockey capable.  Remember watching Zuccy get pushed down during playoffs.  Remember watching granlund get manhandled by opponents using one arm while the opponent handled the puck.  It’s not height-ism, it’s just pro sports.  

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Pewterschmidt said:

And the fact that Guerin has told the world he doesn’t want Rossi

if they do trade Rossi it’ll beg the question why TF did you draft him.  Did you think he’d grow?

 Keep him with 97.  Pump and dump Rossi.  
I don’t dislike Rossi, I just don’t think he’s playoff hockey capable.  Remember watching Zuccy get pushed down during playoffs.  Remember watching granlund get manhandled by opponents using one arm while the opponent handled the puck.  It’s not height-ism, it’s just pro sports.  

that's the reality. agree with everything you've said! 🍻

now go whoop philly!

[RedLake]

Package Rossi for a legit 1c. Problem solved. Kap signs a new deal.

[mnhockeyfan03]

As I mentioned prior no reason to rush extending Rossi.  He is not what we need in the West.  Package him to get what we need.  Yesterday he got completely dominated.  If we can package him, Nojo, Gus, and figured out how to get out of spurgeons contract this team will be much better off.  We need a 1C, another top6 winger, and top 4RHD

[Tony Abbott]

On 10/26/2024 at 9:05 AM, OldDutchChip said:

what is Rossi not getting to do that you'd want him to do?  be a number 1 center to support Kap in the playoffs. give me a clear answer YES or NO - do you think a number 1 line consisting of Zuccy Rossi and Kap can succeed in the playoffs? i acknowledge that he is doing fine collecting points in the regular season, JUST LIKE Harty did. But we have to look at his game when it matters most. If Zuccy wasn't here, i'd be more willing to give him a pass, but Zuccy is, and reality is - you cannot go deep in the playoffs (hell just try winning a game or surviving a shift) with such a baby line. So YES or NO Tony?

Yes -- their size doesn't bother me. If they can have success vs. Florida/Tampa Bay, why can't they succeed in the playoffs?

On 10/26/2024 at 9:05 AM, OldDutchChip said:

...wasn't likely to continue quite that high level of play. And he wasn't! Guess i am not seeing much difference in play and results from Rossi to Harty when both are with Kap. Or are you saying when Harty moved down to center our goons, that his production dipped? Well that's what i want to find out from Rossi - can he be a driver of his own line or is he just along for the ride? Why not give him Foligno and Ohgren and see what he got? You think he will be a PPG player with 7MM tag? 

Hartman couldn't duplicate those results with Kaprizov and Zucc. He started the next season in the same spot, and couldn't do it again. Hartman isn't strong enough defensively to hold up in a top-line center role, and they got burned too much to keep above water when the shooting percentage regressed.

[Tony Abbott]

On 10/26/2024 at 9:21 AM, Pewterschmidt said:

I really like Rossi’s production right now and he’s trending up and to the right.  I agree with Old Dirty Bastard on Rossi though.  He’s too small for playoff hockey.  We’ve seen this movie many times.  He’ll go full Kunin in playoffs when the big boys come out to play.  
I’m in for a sell high on Rossi situation at TDL this year. 

Kunin was never good enough in the regular season, either. 

[MacGyver]

We should be talking about how do we pump and dump Hartman not Rossi. Problem is there is no way to pump Hartman. Sounds as if we have no way of knowing how to value any player who is on Kaprizov's line. Because all the success that is produced on that line only comes from Kaprizov. Brady Tkachuk c'mon ODC you need to let go of this guy. We are not getting him and he would probably be the first one to tell you that. Next year he has a full NMC. Tell me who is the last high profile player who said I want to go to Minnesota?  

Had he had a choice we probably would not have Kaprizov to argue about. 

 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

Yes -- their size doesn't bother me. If they can have success vs. Florida/Tampa Bay, why can't they succeed in the playoffs?

Hartman couldn't duplicate those results with Kaprizov and Zucc. He started the next season in the same spot, and couldn't do it again. Hartman isn't strong enough defensively to hold up in a top-line center role, and they got burned too much to keep above water when the shooting percentage regressed.

FL was without Barkov and played casually enough without the intensity and lost, it happens -  FL did prove that they have enough of spunk during their run thru the east the last two years. as for tampa well it is not the same tampa of old but who knows,  every team is beatable in NHL - we got to them good for us, they'll rebuild and go on.... winning a game is not a tell all - just because Wild beat FL - that does not mean we are the new champions. its a marathon to the end. 

and using your line of thought - if the wild can't stop/beat flyers - can they really muster up anything against the best of the west? can baby rossi do anything against 6ft + man going out of their way to destroy him and our best player? 2/3 of our line was nullified by the worse of the east that played physical/playoff brand of hockey. we won't be playing against columbus in the playoffs.

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

We should be talking about how do we pump and dump Hartman not Rossi. Problem is there is no way to pump Hartman. Sounds as if we have no way of knowing how to value any player who is on Kaprizov's line. Because all the success that is produced on that line only comes from Kaprizov. Brady Tkachuk c'mon ODC you need to let go of this guy. We are not getting him and he would probably be the first one to tell you that. Next year he has a full NMC. Tell me who is the last high profile player who said I want to go to Minnesota?  

Had he had a choice we probably would not have Kaprizov to argue about. 

 

We should be talking about how do we pump and dump Hartman not Rossi. nah, Harty is fine for what he is getting. We need players like him. 

Because all the success that is produced on that line only comes from Kaprizov. Exactly! He is that good. just imagine if he had deserving/real top linemates. 

Brady Tkachuk c'mon ODC you need to let go of this guy. Why?  Him or Tuch are gettable we just need to be willing to cut ties with Rossi, Zeev or Yurov and some other fancy math (that's a bit of an issue...) 

We are not getting him and he would probably be the first one to tell you that. do we only go after MN players about to retire? is that the only thing that is allowed? so brock nelson and brock boeser and nick leddy? that's too exciting!

[Dango]

You almost have to wait for a disgruntled player that wants to move type situation to get  an upgrade .   I just dont see a clear path from the outside unless youre willing to try a player with some mileage  ,   i look for  some size , injury history ,consistency in that case .  

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

FL was without Barkov and played casually enough without the intensity and lost, it happens -  FL did prove that they have enough of spunk during their run thru the east the last two years. as for tampa well it is not the same tampa of old but who knows,  every team is beatable in NHL - we got to them good for us, they'll rebuild and go on.... winning a game is not a tell all - just because Wild beat FL - that does not mean we are the new champions. its a marathon to the end. 

and using your line of thought - if the wild can't stop/beat flyers - can they really muster up anything against the best of the west? can baby rossi do anything against 6ft + man going out of their way to destroy him and our best player? 2/3 of our line was nullified by the worse of the east that played physical/playoff brand of hockey. we won't be playing against columbus in the playoffs.

You're obsessed with the dude's height to the point where you can't see anything else, man.