Article: Are the Wild's Opening Day Decisions A Long-Term Play?

[M_Nels]

18 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think an aggressive move to trade for Svechnikov (assuming a star and a Russian) wouldn’t be a bad thing to try? Yes it may cost Rossi and Zeev and some other maneuvering but that is likely what we have to do. Nothing in free agency will help. 

Are you saying for this offseason or this year? Svech is signed through 2029 and they just extended him 2yrs ago, clearly the Canes see him as a cornerstone player, I just don't realistically see them trading him even for 2 players.

[MrCheatachu]

18 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Just read Russo's twitter referencing an Athletic article where Leo is saying we're in year 2 of a 5 year plan.  Can anyone access that article and help me understand what Guerin was doing the first 4 years here.  Other than extending the journeyman core.  Jesus Christ!

I've heard that if you're on chrome you can bypass the paywall by right-clicking and selecting 'open reading mode' and that you can do the same thing on an iphone by clicking the two A's next to the address bar and going to reader mode also.

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What must happen to make it work? Some key elements:

• The team must re-sign superstar Kirill Kaprizov, who is eligible for an extension after this season. Nobody, Leipold says, will offer more money than the Wild, but it’s imperative that they convince him he can win in Minnesota.
• The team’s current core and rising stars like Matt Boldy and Brock Faber must thrive.
• The team’s top prospects, like Jesper Wallstedt and Danila Yurov, must arrive and be impactful.
• And next summer, when the Wild have some cap space, they need to hit on a few difference-making free agents. It’s not a ton of space, but Leipold says that they have already identified one or two players they want to sign and that next July 1 will feel like “Christmas.”

also OCL re: Kaprizov-

Quote

“I told you that this five-year plan is not a straight line. He’s the most important piece of our five-year plan. I think I can say that.”

Also OCL:

Quote

“Billy and I are lock step in how we want to achieve the team we want in five years, Billy understands what we’re going to be looking for. Everybody does in this business. It’s a win-loss kind of thing, and we’re going to expect our team to be better. I like the moves Billy has made. He doesn’t need my approval.”

“I have to be honest with you, my DNA doesn’t allow me to (rebuild), I can’t throw in the towel for three years to build the team to get up to two or three years after that, to win a championship. That would be living in the desert too long for me.

And I’ve asked myself that: ‘Do I second-guess stuff?’ Absolutely. But I just can’t find myself doing it. And, honestly, I don’t think our market would like it very much if that’s what we did.”

 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Nothing in free agency will help. 

You don't think Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, Brock Boeser or Andrei Kuzmenko could help a team be competitive in a future with Kaprizov?

[Pewterschmidt]

32 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

iphone by clicking the two A's next to the address bar and going to reader mode also.

Thanks Mr C.  This worked.

"Year 2 of 5 year plan...This was determined last year in a meeting with president and GM BG and his staff, Leipold says"

"Because of this, Leipold says there's 'zero heat' on Guerin, who is entering his sixth season.  Leipold is convinced that Guerin and his staff can deliver"

Alot of standard happy talk and selling of hope in this article.  One can believe it at face value OR one can interpret this as a vote of confidence.  Regardless Leo is moving the goal post in an effort to manage the fanbase's expectations.

But P-Dangles, don't you believe Leo and Guerin want to win?  No shit Sherlock, everyone likes to win.  It comes down to when you're tired of hearing the same hip hop horseshit (next season, next wave of prospects, Nordy is the difference maker) and comparing the results that you see with your own eyeballs.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

56 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Just read Russo's twitter referencing an Athletic article where Leo is saying we're in year 2 of a 5 year plan.  Can anyone access that article and help me understand what Guerin was doing the first 4 years here.  Other than extending the journeyman core.  Jesus Christ!

Signing core players to long-term extensions that quickly have become some of the best contracts in hockey while getting off of the bad money of the Suter and Parise contracts and loading up on prospects that can help when the team gets to the 25-26 season. The Wild have one of the top young goaltenders and a couple other highly rated prospects that are close to being ready and could be contributing next season.

If they don't start advancing in the playoffs by the 26-27 season, Guerin will be on the hot seat, but the team has made good progress towards setting themselves up for a future where they could potentially put a very competitive roster on the ice.

[Up North Guy]

2 hours ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

I would like to see Hartman, who can play chippy and tougher than he looks, center Trenin/Foligno and see how that works out.

I really think that is a 3rd line that could be devastating. Tough, hard nosed, mean and with a decent amount of scoring ability. A rat, a bulldog and a bear walk into a bar......

[Up North Guy]

2 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Even if Ohgren didn't outplay NoJo, it was at worst even, which I'd understand sticking with the veteran in many cases, but in this case, Ohgren is very likely to improve upon his skill set while Johansson is likely not only to decline, but also not be with the team next year. I expect NoJo in the press box regularly.

We can only hope..

[MrCheatachu]

30 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Alot of standard happy talk and selling of hope in this article.  One can believe it at face value OR one can interpret this as a vote of confidence.  Regardless Leo is moving the goal post in an effort to manage the fanbase's expectations.

OCL's stated multiple times that he doesnt want to have 2-3 shitty years to rebuild, and he doesn't think the fanbase will stand for that either.

I think it's the same OCL goalposts that have always been here...he genuinely believes that he can/should be able to build a contender without requiring a tanking season (or two-three).

I somewhat agree with him...I don't think the MN fanbase would accept 3 years of watching Coyotes/Blackhawks/Sharks/BlueJackets level hockey.  With as much pride as they've put on MN being 'the state of hockey' I'd imagine a large percentage of the fans would be disgusted with watching a couple years of subpar hockey.  

Not only that, a high pick isnt going to turn around a franchise.  Bedard, Slafkovsky, Power, Lafrenière are all good players, but (with the exception of the rags) none of them have dragged their team into a perennial contender yet...

[FredJohnson]

Are the Wild's Opening Day Decisions A Long-Term Play?
 

Yes, we're obviously tanking with NoJo on the roster. (Sarcasm...mostly)

[FredJohnson]

4 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

someone to quickly skate into the zone and turnover the puck

The new penalty kill tactic?? 😂

[FredJohnson]

3 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I can see why Russo gets so mad with Tony, sometimes it feels like he is watching a different game. I hope this isn't what Guerin is seeing too.

Tony Pants calls a good game...but he's not a very good analyst.

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Leafs, hawks and other  teams that have smart creative cap guys

Vegas. They are not afraid to move pieces to get pieces especially high end ones. And they are probably the number one destination team in the league. They are the cleavage every player can't look away from! 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Are you saying for this offseason or this year? Svech is signed through 2029 and they just extended him 2yrs ago, clearly the Canes see him as a cornerstone player, I just don't realistically see them trading him even for 2 players.

we may not know the dynamics in that clubhouse, maybe they would be willing to entertain it, especially after disappointed finishes last few years

svechnikov is not the only one, but he fits the mold - same age, great player, and yes - russian too. this is all moot, as i am pretty sure the wild are now convinced that the only thing they can do is show off their prospects (like Kaprizov is clueless about them) and wait and see. naive approach but that's where we are at. nothing has been done to better our chances. We have a team that will likely finish outside of the playoffs this year, no sure thing g on the horizon, but somehow Billy and Leo thinks that this will work out - guess we'll see. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You don't think Mitch Marner, Mikko Rantanen, Brock Boeser or Andrei Kuzmenko could help a team be competitive in a future with Kaprizov?

are we getting Rantanen? if so, then yes i like it. but the chance of that happening is 💩

other three - pass. 

 

[M_Nels]

12 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

we may not know the dynamics in that clubhouse

Kinda like none of us know the dynamics in the Wild clubhouse when it comes to whether Kap will walk or stay eh? 😉

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Kinda like none of us know the dynamics in the Wild clubhouse when it comes to whether Kap will walk or stay eh? 😉

that's very true! i hope i'm wrong! time will tell

still very excited for the season! 

crazy prediction - 

MJ starts strong and has 40 points in the first 50 games earning himself another contract.......

[Citizen Strife]

I get the "move the goalpost" idea.  What I gauge is Leipold isn't going to let the team tank.  That hasn't changed.  What has changed is his realization (which started with Fenton's weird year) that the Wild are NOT a contender, and a GM shouldn't proceed like they are.  Guerin is allowed to keep key draft capital, which allows some wiggle room to keep some future options available if some prospects don't exactly hit as intended.

The Wild have more talent than some want to admit.  I can understand the wait and see approach for the 3-5 bigger upside guys both on and off the roster right now.

[MacGyver]

This is also from the Athletic article. 

 

Quote

Am I convinced that we can (persuade him to stay)? No,” Leipold says. “Am I convinced that we will have a better offer than anybody else can do in the league? The answer is yes.

“I told you that this five-year plan is not a straight line. He’s the most important piece of our five-year plan. I think I can say that.”

Leipold says when Guerin begins serious talks with Kaprizov and his agent next offseason, the entire “plan” will be communicated to him.

A couple things. A five year plan? Wouldn't that plan have started with the buy outs so we would be three years into it. Earlier CL said we are in year two of a five year plan. 

And why wait to reveal your plan to Kaprizov until next season if you have your plan all mapped out? Kaprizov is most certainly pondering his future already and he is doing it without the benefit of knowing this plan. CL knows Kaprizov most likely reads the Athletic too so he may be baiting him by selling hope to maybe open conversations early. Also sounds like CL may have an idea Kaprizov is leaving. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

33 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Kaprizov is most certainly pondering his future already and he is doing it without the benefit of knowing this plan. CL knows Kaprizov most likely reads the Athletic too so he may be baiting him by selling hope to maybe open conversations early.

Also in the article is Kaprizov quoting as saying he's under contract for 2 more years and not interested in pondering the future, just focused on the season ahead.

Quote

“I have two more years now, and I just try not to think about this because it’s a season just coming now,” he says. “It’s a new year and I want to make the playoffs. But I love playing here. I just try to play hockey now and not think about the contract because I have a lot of time.”

Kaprisov’s buy-in on “the plan” is crucial to its success.  “He knows what we’re trying to do,” Guerin says.

They just aren't talking specifics about free agents and moves they are planning to make because nothing is happening for at least 8-9 months(and injuries or other events could arise to alter the plan). There is a season to focus on right now!!!

[Citizen Strife]

Look, for all we know, the Wild can finish dead last (highly unlikely), a bubble team out of the playoffs (probable), a playoff team again (I'd like to think that's likely), and a Conference Finalist/Stanley Cup Finalist/Winner (That'll be the day).  You don't know what a year is going to bring.  I can understand Kap being focused on kicking Columbus's ass tomorrow.

 

[Dean]

Obviously Craig is. Campaigning hard for taxpayer money. He’s spewing some nonsense. So now we find out we’re  in year 2 of a 5. Yr plan that might take 6 years . After 6 years of Billy ?  6 years of Billy putting crap on the ice and having the lapanta and Tom Reid’s brow beat fans into thinking what there watching is good and there no other options. Did Craig come up with this 5 year plan or did  he just copy Vegas s owner.?  The difference is Vegas actually had a plan. Craig’s plan is to extract as much money from minny fans as possible while telling them that mediocrity is good and continually buying more time with we have a great prospect pool. Who cares what some bozo at the athletic thinks about prospects. It doesn’t win cups. Either does putting this core of players out year after year and saying it will get better   Seriously we’re in year two of a 5 year plan after 6 of Billy is a flipping joke! Only in Minnesota would we put up with this nonexistent accountability. Selling hopes and dreams of sh_t that will never happen  if they actually want to be a good team they need to fire the ass kissing media and get real broadcasters that want to win and tell the truth like Russo. Then maybe fans would understand there being sold crap and demand more .25 years of same b.s isn’t going to get better with this ownership and gm . They don’t get it . Just look at the stupid lines they are going back to  . Kappy will be a punching bag all year on the  small people line  . Come playoff time whether they make or not , we all know how the story ends  utter humiliation! Little kids getting bullied  . 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

that's very true! i hope i'm wrong! time will tell

still very excited for the season! 

crazy prediction - 

MJ starts strong and has 40 points in the first 50 games earning himself another contract.......

Nojo is so unpopular with all fans, and Guerin has been hoodwinked once already in a 20 game contract year stretch.  If Guerin re-ups with the Noj BG is even dumber than he looks. 

#backtoschoolrodney

#heeeeyitellya

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

And why wait to reveal your plan to Kaprizov until next season if you have your plan all mapped out? Kaprizov is most certainly pondering his future already and he is doing it without the benefit of knowing this plan.

My grandad had a name for this Mac G: Bullshit

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

This is also from the Athletic article. 

 

A couple things. A five year plan? Wouldn't that plan have started with the buy outs so we would be three years into it. Earlier CL said we are in year two of a five year plan. 

And why wait to reveal your plan to Kaprizov until next season if you have your plan all mapped out? Kaprizov is most certainly pondering his future already and he is doing it without the benefit of knowing this plan. CL knows Kaprizov most likely reads the Athletic too so he may be baiting him by selling hope to maybe open conversations early. Also sounds like CL may have an idea Kaprizov is leaving. 

original 5 year plan started in 2000, so we are in year 24-25 of the plan by now. might be time for pitchforks! 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Look, for all we know, the Wild can finish dead last (highly unlikely), a bubble team out of the playoffs (probable), a playoff team again (I'd like to think that's likely), and a Conference Finalist/Stanley Cup Finalist/Winner (That'll be the day).  You don't know what a year is going to bring.  I can understand Kap being focused on kicking Columbus's ass tomorrow.

 

to add - if by some miracle Wild make the playoffs and advance past round 1, it will be because of Kap dragging us along. this i argue is irrelevant to his long term plans. as a hockey player he very much knows the state of the wild, and more so - it's players. he knows how good the prospects are, he knows how good yurov is, and he knows the true worth of our youth. our best bet is to show him - there is your number 2. it's not going to be zuccy (he is gone after next year .... if not sooner - trade?) we need to either hope Boldy is that 100 pt player someone wrote about recently or give Kap one that is. No knock on Boldy but he is NOT in Kaprizov stratosphere. He is not yet a Rantanen to McKinnon, not Draisaitl to McD, nor Tkachuk to Barkov. We need that special player THIS year. Bring them in, create a bond with Kap, build up towards the next phase of success. Even if we miss the playoffs and loose a prospect or two in the process is worth it - out main focus this year is the prioritization of out number 1 needs. get Kap his linemate. not a rookie which we "hope" he will want to mentor, but a proven player. on his timeline.