Article: Why Is Matt Boldy Being Projected As A Top-5 Player?

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

This isn't even Hockey Wilderness positivity, but Boldy hasn't been far from point per game pace in the past. He's put up 45 point in 42 regular season games played in March and April over the last 2 seasons. He just need to get a better start and be more consistent throughout the year.

If he comes in motivated and stays healthy, Boldy not reaching 80 points would be disappointing and he has a chance at 90 if the Boldy/JEE/Kaprivoz line gets used a lot more this season. We'll see how that compares to bonafide NHL stars at the end of the season, but he was top 50 in points per 60 minutes even strength last season(minimum 20 games), and most players are still improving at his age.

Boldy had 69 pts in 75 games. That’s Larkin/Konecny category. Let’s not fool ourselves that he is about to join elites group. That is a bit of a stretch. Right now he is a tier 3 player on offense, maybe he improves more this year, but at this point it’s just not there yet to elevate him to that high of a pedestal 

ODCs tier ranking

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Drsisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson

Tier2.5 (old timers that still have enough gas)

Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Forsberg, Stammy, Sheiffle

Boldy is not in the same realm as players in above tiers. I’m fine placing him in tier 3, but that is also very competitive tier, so no shame, but tough to break into above tiers

[Imyourhuckleberry]

10 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Boldy had 69 pts in 75 games. That’s Larkin/Konecny category. Let’s not fool ourselves that he is about to join elites group. That is a bit of a stretch. Right now he is a tier 3 player on offense, maybe he improves more this year, but at this point it’s just not there yet to elevate him to that high of a pedestal 

ODCs tier ranking

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Drsisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson

Tier2.5 (old timers that still have enough gas)

Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Forsberg, Stammy, Sheiffle

Boldy is not in the same realm as players in above tiers. I’m fine placing him in tier 3, but that is also very competitive tier, so no shame, but tough to break into above tiers

Boldy isn't in the same realm as Tier1 today, but it looks like you are placing Kaprizov in Tier1 and Kaprizov at age 23 posted 51 points in 55 games, which happens to be equal pace to 69 points in 75 games, which Boldy did at age 22.

Aho posted 67 points in 75 games the year before last, so I'm not sure you can put him far above Boldy.  Some folks are projecting Boldy to take a leap in productivity, which sounds like it might shock you.  I'm not even arguing that he will have a major spike in his points, only that he isn't currently far from a point per game pace, so exceeding it wouldn't take an insane leap for him. I'm not projecting 90+ points, only stating that it's possible.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Yeah, I'm also sick and tired of the watering down of Hall of Fame talk. We need a better handle on English where we can call it like it really is. 

However, Boldy should be better this season. What is your expectation of him being better?

I’m expecting him to solidify tier 3 membership status as a leader of that tier, anything else is a let down. To do that, I would like to see meanness added to his game…..but that may not happen, which makes me think he will find Tier 3 his home for some time. 

ODCs tier ranking

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Drsisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson, Bedard

Tier2.5 (old timers that still have enough gas)

Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Forsberg, Stammy, Sheiffle

Tier3

Svechnikov, Larkin, Konecny, Zeba, Barzal, Guentzel…. Those are great players, so if Boldy can supplant them and lead this tier, I think it’s a great goal. To expect Tier 2 placement, or to jump into Tier 1, is just unrealistic expectations

[OldDutchChip]

48 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Boldy isn't in the same realm as Tier1 today, but it looks like you are placing Kaprizov in Tier1 and Kaprizov at age 23 posted 51 points in 55 games, which happens to be equal pace to 69 points in 75 games, which Boldy did at age 22.

Aho posted 67 points in 75 games the year before last, so I'm not sure you can put him far above Boldy.  Some folks are projecting Boldy to take a leap in productivity, which sounds like it might shock you.  I'm not even arguing that he will have a major spike in his points, only that he isn't currently far from a point per game pace, so exceeding it wouldn't take an insane leap for him. I'm not projecting 90+ points, only stating that it's possible.

You could see what Kaprizov had in terms of skill and "special factor" almost immediately on the ice vs Kings. I cannot say with confidence that about Boldy and we are entering year 4 with him. Yes, there is a chance he can jump into Aho's Tier 2, but that is still not a guarantee.  I think my expectations are is that he implants himself as a top dog of tier 3 group, and if he somehow jumps a tier - that would be gravy. 

[Will D. Ness]

20 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

You could see what Kaprizov had in terms of skill and "special factor" almost immediately on the ice vs Kings. I cannot say with confidence that about Boldy and we are entering year 4 with him. Yes, there is a chance he can jump into Aho's Tier 2, but that is still not a guarantee.  I think my expectations are is that he implants himself as a top dog of tier 3 group, and if he somehow jumps a tier - that would be gravy. 

I think Boldy is about the same age now as KK97 was his first game vs Kings?

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I think Boldy is about the same age now as KK97 was his first game vs Kings?

let's help you finish that train of thought -  are you suggesting that Boldy is going to be on same level as Kaprizov? here i'll even expand that criteria- you seem to be indicating that he is likely to join this tier 1-2? right? he is THAT good? 

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Draisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson

[Imyourhuckleberry]

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

are you suggesting that Boldy is going to be on same level as Kaprizov? here i'll even expand that criteria- you seem to be indicating that he is likely to join this tier 1-2? right? he is THAT good? 

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Draisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson

I suspect some folks might say Kaprizov is tier 2 comparatively. Even guys like Draisaitl and Matthew Tkachuk scored at a similar pace to Boldy at or around age 22 though, as did Kaprizov. I don't anticipate that Boldy will be brought up in MVP conversations, but I don't think any of us know how Boldy's development might go.

The article references a very optimistic projection. I'm certainly not counting on him topping 100 points every year like some of those guys in tier 1 do, but he very well could be around 80+ points in a number of upcoming seasons and might have a shot at 90+ in 25-26 and beyond.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I suspect some folks might say Kaprizov is tier 2 comparatively. Even guys like Draisaitl and Matthew Tkachuk scored at a similar pace to Boldy at or around age 22 though, as did Kaprizov. I don't anticipate that Boldy will be brought up in MVP conversations, but I don't think any of us know how Boldy's development might go.

The article references a very optimistic projection. I'm certainly not counting on him topping 100 points every year like some of those guys in tier 1 do, but he very well could be around 80+ points in a number of upcoming seasons and might have a shot at 90+ in 25-26 and beyond.

i think 80 pts should be a good goal for Boldy, especially with a season that will call for him to step up even more and try to take pressure from Kap. But he will have opposing top D pair constantly on his ass, so it will be a good telling of where he belongs after end of the year. right now i just can't plug them into a hier tier. not yet. i am hoping he can get there, but saying that he occupies a tier with Svechnikov, Larkin and Konecny, is not too bad either. I just can't move him above. 

[Patrick]

Boldy got a chance to play with actual first line talent and seized the opportunity! Watch the Wild brain trust fix what isn't broken and break up one of the best lines in the NHL. 😡

[mnfaninnc]

20 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I think Boldy is about the same age now as KK97 was his first game vs Kings?

The thing we noticed about Kaprizov was his shot was lethal, his edges were elite and he was thick. I think Boldy might be a touch more creative, but he is not as thick, especially lower body, and his edges can use work as with any larger player. His shot is really accurate though. I thought Kaprizov was 24 when he came over, but that is sheer memory.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

The article references a very optimistic projection. I'm certainly not counting on him topping 100 points every year like some of those guys in tier 1 do, but he very well could be around 80+ points in a number of upcoming seasons and might have a shot at 90+ in 25-26 and beyond.

Wouldn't that alone make Boldy a tier 2 candidate?

[mnfaninnc]

One of the things with the tiers that is hard is finding the criteria between a center and a wing. For a wing to be considered in a tier, he's got to be demonstrably better points wise than a center in that tier. Since Boldy and Kaprizov are wings, they have a higher bar to meet offensively. And, I would think they should have more goals in those points. 

[mnfaninnc]

22 hours ago, raithis said:

The problem then is I also think having too many shorter stature players on a line is a bad thing.  Kaprizov holds his own, and Rossi has been working on it, but Boldy and Ek are stronger in the slot. 

I have to disagree with you on this. Short is not small, short and thin is small. Beckman was 6'2" but was small because he barely crossed 190lbs. You could see it in his board battles in the N, he never went into the boards, he went close and tried to pick pucks out. He simply wasn't strong enough. You see it in O'Rourke, too, who is just too small for the type of game he wants to play, even at 6'2". He's only in the 190s, and he needs to be around 210 for his game.

For that matter, Brodin also falls into this category, but due to his elite skating and stick work he is able to play at that weight.

While Kaprizov is under 6', he is thick, not small. If Rossi can come in between 195-200, he will also be thick not small. Those guys have tremendous leverage on the larger players and can bump them off balance. It's also hard to clear a guy out when your crosscheck hits them in the top of the back. Those tend to get seen and penalized. 

My conclusion is that every one of our prospects needs to get on my bulk up plan. I don't know how to do it, but I know where the results should be! Lesson is this: Not bulking up means you want a career in the A. At 10% of the salary, I'm betting that's not really where they want to be. Last time I remember hearing players, I've never heard anyone say their dream is to play in the A! Well, then, do what you need to do to get to the N!

[Mateo3xm]

21 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

 

Boldy had 69 pts in 75 games. That’s Larkin/Konecny category. Let’s not fool ourselves that he is about to join elites group. That is a bit of a stretch. Right now he is a tier 3 player on offense, maybe he improves more this year, but at this point it’s just not there yet to elevate him to that high of a pedestal 

ODCs tier ranking

Tier1

McDavid, Kuch, MacKinnon, Kap, Matthews, Drsisaitl, Pasta

Tier2

Panarin, Rantanen, Nylander, Barkov, Tkachuks, Aho, Petterson, Hughes, Point, Robertson

Tier2.5 (old timers that still have enough gas)

Crosby, Ovi, Malkin, Forsberg, Stammy, Sheiffle

Boldy is not in the same realm as players in above tiers. I’m fine placing him in tier 3, but that is also very competitive tier, so no shame, but tough to break into above tiers

Boldy absolutely has the potential to reach Aho or Robertson potential and plenty others. You’re drunk again it seems. He has potential to reach 90-100pts if he stays on the JEE and Kap line. All those players you mentioned in tier 2-2.5 have extremely talented line mates. Boldy hasn’t had anywhere near as talented line mates for the majority of his career and he’s 23 years old.

You really aren’t grasping the fact that he’s put up close to a point per game with nobody elite to play with till fairly recently. Like someone else stated, if you look at projection/production of some players in tier 2-3, year by year, Boldy is right there with some of them. Statistically speaking players reach their prime at age 24-26.

Aho’s last season was his highest points total with 89pts at age 27. Aho has Svechnikov and Jarvis on his line

Robertson had that 109pt season but last year he had 80pts. He had Hintz, Pavelski, Benn or Duchene to play with

Forsberg had his best year last year with 94pts at age 29. He had an 84pt season 2 years ago but other than that his point production isn’t super remarkable. He had Ryan O’Reilly on his line.

Scheifle didn’t score 82 pts till his 4th or 5th year and his highest points total was 84pts in 18’-19’. He had Connor, Wheeler, Ehlers and prime Laine to play with.

its not a stretch in the least bit if you put it into perspective. 

[OldDutchChip]

56 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

Boldy absolutely has the potential to reach Aho or Robertson potential and plenty others. You’re drunk again it seems. He has potential to reach 90-100pts if he stays on the JEE and Kap line. All those players you mentioned in tier 2-2.5 have extremely talented line mates. Boldy hasn’t had anywhere near as talented line mates for the majority of his career and he’s 23 years old.

You really aren’t grasping the fact that he’s put up close to a point per game with nobody elite to play with till fairly recently. Like someone else stated, if you look at projection/production of some players in tier 2-3, year by year, Boldy is right there with some of them. Statistically speaking players reach their prime at age 24-26.

Aho’s last season was his highest points total with 89pts at age 27. Aho has Svechnikov and Jarvis on his line

Robertson had that 109pt season but last year he had 80pts. He had Hintz, Pavelski, Benn or Duchene to play with

Forsberg had his best year last year with 94pts at age 29. He had an 84pt season 2 years ago but other than that his point production isn’t super remarkable. He had Ryan O’Reilly on his line.

Scheifle didn’t score 82 pts till his 4th or 5th year and his highest points total was 84pts in 18’-19’. He had Connor, Wheeler, Ehlers and prime Laine to play with.

its not a stretch in the least bit if you put it into perspective. 

i am not arguing with delusional fans like you. i am stating my opinion. if you think he is in a tier with Aho and Forsberg or he'll approach 100 pts and be the next Robertson - go for it. 

and maybe drink once or twice and you'll be a bit more chiller, less insulting and rational. 

cheers.

[Mateo3xm]

46 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i am not arguing with delusional fans like you. i am stating my opinion. if you think he is in a tier with Aho and Forsberg or he'll approach 100 pts and be the next Robertson - go for it. 

and maybe drink once or twice and you'll be a bit more chiller, less insulting and rational. 

cheers.

What did I say that was delusional? I said Boldy has the POTENTIAL to reach Aho or Robertson type production. Robertson is a bit lofty but he absolutely has POTENTIAL to be somewhere in between those two players and a couple others you listed. I literally showed you with stats from other players to back that up. What did I say that was irrational? 

You obviously like to drink so I don't see how pointing that out is insulting when you admit it. I don't drink anymore because I found myself posting ridiculous comments on Mn Wild articles like you lol.

You're entitled to your opinion just like I am but when I see ppl trashing comments that have literally been backed up by stats, facts and comparable metrics it's hard to not say something, especially when you don’t seem to back up your opinion with much.

In all seriousness I probably shouldn't go as hard as I have in the past, when responding. I enjoy commenting and hearing all your opinions even though I don’t agree with all of them. I still do respect everybody’s opinion and it’s all love at the end of the day.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Mateo3xm said:

 

What did I say that was delusional? I said Boldy has the POTENTIAL to reach Aho or Robertson type production. Robertson is a bit lofty but he absolutely has POTENTIAL to be somewhere in between those two players and a couple others you listed. I literally showed you with stats from other players to back that up. What did I say that was irrational? 

You obviously like to drink so I don't see how pointing that out is insulting when you admit it. I don't drink anymore because I found myself posting ridiculous comments on Mn Wild articles like you lol.

You're entitled to your opinion just like I am but when I see ppl trashing comments that have literally been backed up by stats, facts and comparable metrics it's hard to not say something, especially when you don’t seem to back up your opinion with much.

In all seriousness I probably shouldn't go as hard as I have in the past, when responding. I enjoy commenting and hearing all your opinions even though I don’t agree with all of them. I still do respect everybody’s opinion and it’s all love at the end of the day.

you are delusional for seeing something that is just not there. hoping that boldy has a game similar to any players that i placed in top 2 tiers. stats chasing to prove something is not end of all. temper expectations - and maybe you won't be constantly disappointed - and also maybe you will appreciate true greatness rather than satisfying for "good-enough" and making it out to be something more. 

i dunno it just seems like boldy is not yet there to make the next step to the true elite offensive level. 80 pts or around there is his reality. if he reaches 90 = that would be amazing though and likely means he makes tier 2.

also - drinking is good for you. so don't be silly. 🍻

love the discussion too! cheers!

[Will D. Ness]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:25 PM, OldDutchChip said:

let's help you finish that train of thought -  are you suggesting that Boldy is going to be on same level as Kaprizov?

I'm just pointing out that Boldy is still young and past years inconsistency isn't apples to apples really.  

I don't think Boldy will be on the same level as KK97.  That is absurd.  

I think KK97 is better than you think he is.  😀

[Will D. Ness]

20 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

The thing we noticed about Kaprizov was his shot was lethal, his edges were elite and he was thick. I think Boldy might be a touch more creative, but he is not as thick, especially lower body, and his edges can use work as with any larger player. His shot is really accurate though. I thought Kaprizov was 24 when he came over, but that is sheer memory.

I think KK97 is a true playmaker with a lethal shot to boot.  I see Boldy as more of a scorer.  I think Boldy is finding his game which I think is a nice blend of power and agility, good hands (but not KK97 hands) with that accurate shot.

With Ek, it could be the most dominant line in the league next year. 

[OldDutchChip]

26 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I'm just pointing out that Boldy is still young and past years inconsistency isn't apples to apples really.  

I don't think Boldy will be on the same level as KK97.  That is absurd.  

I think KK97 is better than you think he is.  😀

i already think Kap is Tier 1 - Top 5 player in the league. Not sure how much better he can be than that? He is not on a Tier by himself 🤔

 

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

i already think Kap is Tier 1 - Top 5 player in the league. Not sure how much better he can be than that? He is not on a Tier by himself 🤔

 

I think he is unique and hasn't quite reached his full potential.  With the emergence of Boldy next year it should be fun to see what he can do.

[Pewterschmidt]

nhl network just ranked top 10 WINGS in league

 97 ranked #7 just after Jason Robertson

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I think he is unique and hasn't quite reached his full potential.  With the emergence of Boldy next year it should be fun to see what he can do.

unfortunately its looking more and more likely that he'll be doing that for another team. battling for wild card and whatever the emergence of Boldy entails -  won't mean anything to Kap's ong-term plans (unless Boldy turns into a Draisaitl or a Tier 2  lock, there is no logical reason for Kap to stay beyond 26 season....) perhaps that is why we get these posts trying to raise up players like Boldy and over hype our prospects and picks....get the fans a false hope that all will be good. 🤔

[Will D. Ness]

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

unfortunately its looking more and more likely that he'll be doing that for another team. battling for wild card and whatever the emergence of Boldy entails -  won't mean anything to Kap's ong-term plans (unless Boldy turns into a Draisaitl or a Tier 2  lock, there is no logical reason for Kap to stay beyond 26 season....) perhaps that is why we get these posts trying to raise up players like Boldy and over hype our prospects and picks....get the fans a false hope that all will be good. 🤔

Your reasoning is based off of you pretending to know what lies in KK97's head so no point in discussing that level of conjecture.

Boldy might be a Tier 2 guy. Maybe not.  Who knows... that is why we watch the games.  The stats lead towards it, the eye test leads towards it.  He just has to put it together.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Will D. Ness said:

Your reasoning is based off of you pretending to know what lies in KK97's head so no point in discussing that level of conjecture.

Boldy might be a Tier 2 guy. Maybe not.  Who knows... that is why we watch the games.  The stats lead towards it, the eye test leads towards it.  He just has to put it together.

Yeap we’ll wait and see

my call -

boldy stays below top tiers and Kap leaves