Article: Should the 2024 Draft Change the Wild's Jake Middleton Plans?

[Tony Abbott]

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[Citizen Strife]

I'm not against either plan.  The thing that works in Middleton's favor is Spurgeon and Bogo's contracts are both going away sooner rather than later.  Bogo is that MoJo stopgap length, and lord knows what Spurgeon's health situation will be like.  I think Guerin is willing to play it safe and say, "Middleton has size, is relatively young (28-32 for the span of 4 years isn't the worst), and is at worst a viable Top 4 with the right situation.

The cap going up hurts the plan less than it would normally.  Guerin has shown he's playing a waiting game with prospects.  I also believe he's going to try and stagger contracts out of things are less crowded.  I doubt Guerin wants to go into another off-season with 4-5 2nd-3rd line guys up for contracts.  This year is one of those lucky breaks were anyone re-signing are just depth pieces.  1-2 core contracts at a time probably makes things more palatable.

Guerin wouldn't be considering a Middleton extension if he wasn't valuable or didn't bring something other players are lacking.  Iowa had a rough season.  Buium may or may not be lightning in a bottle like Faber and Rossi were.

[Patrick]

I couldn't agree more. In fact, barring something extreme like Spurgeon retiring, I'd say resigning Middleton would be borderline brain dead. Players like Middleton are available every free agency and trade deadline. There is zero reason to sign him now and plenty of reasons not to.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

There is zero reason to sign him now and plenty of reasons not to.

This article made me aware that there’s zero urgency to sign mids this offseason.  It would be evidence that Guerin learned nothing last off season.  Mids is our only top 4 d man with size so that’s valuable, but what if mids regresses again next season, or gets hurt.  He’s slightly above average player and there’s a stock pile of Ian Cole’s available for 2.5M/yr every offseason.  Why award mids with $ AND term? 

#don’tbedumbBill

[B1GKappa97]

I don’t think it changes the plan. Middsy is just hitting his prime. I thought we wanted size throughout the roster?

Middleton is exactly the kind of 3rd pairing defenseman you want for a Cup run. $4M is a little much but idk I don’t think it’s a death-knell for the roster considering if we have Zeev and Yurov and Heidt they’ll all be on ELCs at that time anyway. 

Plus guys like Spurgy and Zuccy and Foligno will begin falling off the books as they get replaced by those ELC players anyhow. Also the cap rising lowers the impact.

Edited Sunday at 03:28 PM by B1GKappa97

[WildOnrario]

Can we not just sign players to a 1 year maybe 4 mill  deal with no trade pertection or is it really so bad to let him walk

[Dis-allowed display name]

Well I sure hope the contract has a water tight no trade/no movement clauses so we can't get rid of him even if we want to.

[Krotz the Wall]

Middleton is a known commodity, with decent size and age. Spurgeon is closing in on the end of his career. Brodin will be getting closer the three years. Assume a couple seasons pass, Spurgeon retires or is possibly moved on… Brodin will be upper mid-30s and probably not any less injury resilient than he has been recently. Faber & Buium… Mids/Brodin and as many as 3 additional spots. That’s assuming that a lot of the pipeline guys develop into legitimate NHLers, and they should still be partnering veteran defenders. Middleton at 31 and roughly $4m is a pretty solid 3rd pairing vet.

Guerin shouldn’t put trade protections in. Mids is exactly the sort of defender that teams look for in to fill out their blue line, so he’ll likely be able to be moved if they need to in the future.

[mnfaninnc]

5 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Mids is our only top 4 d man with size so that’s valuable, but what if mids regresses again next season, or gets hurt.

Middleton's deal would run him through his 29-33 years. I could see trade protection the 1st 2 years of the deal. I don't think Middleton will regress. At the beginning of the year, I thought he had actually added speed.

As for the injury aspect, Middleton played hurt a great deal of the season. Why play hurt? Because there was nobody else to turn to. Same thing with Faber who played hurt down the stretch. He should get some credit for that!

Why do we need Middleton? Size. Has anyone noticed the size we have developing? Top of the class middleweights. A team needs the big guys to clear things out, specifically on the PK. We need 3 big guys on the roster, the 3rd can be D7. Merrill is tall but plays like a lightweight. When he tries to get physical, he just doesn't know how very well. 

Since this is a team game with many different roles, in house, we simply do not have a Middleton replacement ready. It's also worth remembering that defenders, especially larger defenders, can play in their 30s without much fall off. I'd say Middleton will be solid until 36, just due to the size factor. That might not be top 4 solid, but roster solid. 

I do question the $4m, however. Pewter's right, a 3rd pairing guy is worth about $2.5m IMO. So, why not just make it a 2 X $4m and then renegotiate? Of course, if Shooter is looking at the cap trends, he may see the cap increasing to the point where $4m is the new $2.5m for such a player. 

[OldDutchChip]

Looks like we have a surplus of young D that need to play, and regardless of how I feel about the path taken, I’d rather see our young D get the chance and compete (sometimes they impress if given a chance!!) rather than hand out 4 mil for next 3/4 year on Midds & see him blocking these prospects

Fauauak Let’s See what they got! Give them an open spot to shoot for, let Midds walk 

 

[Sam]

22 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Looks like we have a surplus of young D that need to play, and regardless of how I feel about the path taken, I’d rather see our young D get the chance and compete (sometimes they impress if given a chance!!) rather than hand out 4 mil for next 3/4 year on Midds & see him blocking these prospects

Fauauak Let’s See what they got! Give them an open spot to shoot for, let Midds walk 

 

At first I thought you were some old, salty, angry man. But I am starting to agree with your insight on satisfying our star Kirill and I agree with giving our defensive prospects a chance. 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Sam said:

At first I thought you were some old, salty, angry man. But I am starting to agree with your insight on satisfying our star Kirill and I agree with giving our defensive prospects a chance. 

cheers my friend! 🍻 may tomorrow bring lots of joy to the wild nation!

[B1GKappa97]

9 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Looks like we have a surplus of young D that need to play, and regardless of how I feel about the path taken, I’d rather see our young D get the chance and compete (sometimes they impress if given a chance!!) rather than hand out 4 mil for next 3/4 year on Midds & see him blocking these prospects

Fauauak Let’s See what they got! Give them an open spot to shoot for, let Midds walk 

 

If he's blocking them, then they aren't actually better. Right? 

It's not like he kept Faber out of the lineup. Or Chisholm. 

[B1GKappa97]

18 hours ago, WildOnrario said:

Can we not just sign players to a 1 year maybe 4 mill  deal with no trade pertection or is it really so bad to let him walk

Why would he sign that? It takes both sides to come to a contract agreement. 

Most players prefer to have some security in their deals, rather than the potential to get traded off at any point and separated from their families. I doubt Middsy wants to accept an offer to play year to year. 

4-years isn't terrible while we wait for more development from our blueline prospects tbh. None of the AHL guys seem close anyway and Zeev is probably a season or two away at least. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, B1GKappa97 said:

If he's blocking them, then they aren't actually better. Right? 

It's not like he kept Faber out of the lineup. Or Chisholm. 

he is blocking them by being there as a waste of space that has to play.  get it?

[Will D. Ness]

57 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

he is blocking them by being there as a waste of space that has to play.  get it?

Shit we had Goligoski and Merrill and Mermis ahead of the young guys.  They were the waste of space.  Hunt should have played over them last year.

BTW, it isn't going to happen but we should bring in Zadorov like you said.  I would rather pay him than pay Middleton.

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

Shit we had Goligoski and Merrill and Mermis ahead of the young guys.  They were the waste of space.  Hunt should have played over them last year.

BTW, it isn't going to happen but we should bring in Zadorov like you said.  I would rather pay him than pay Middleton.

hell yeah, zadorov is still unsigned!

and true that - Goli Merrill Mermis, now i am waiting for us to sign Ekman Larson to 3 year and Midds and what is that going to tell our young D prospect? 🤔

common Marchy - sign with us! 

[B1GKappa97]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

he is blocking them by being there as a waste of space that has to play.  get it?

If they can't beat out Middleton, they probably shouldn't be playing ahead of him. 

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

If they can't beat out Middleton, they probably shouldn't be playing ahead of him. 

how many games in the big club had Hunt, O'Rourke, Peart, Spacek, lambos, Johanson, Masters? you don't think giving them an honest trial would make sense over locking up Midds for the next 3 years? or what's going to happen if one or two of them show up and we have no place for them? but they can't even show up cause now we have no room for them!

brodin-faber spurge-midds chissy-bogo zeev too. where are you going to play them? back in minors. 

[B1GKappa97]

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

how many games in the big club had Hunt, O'Rourke, Peart, Spacek, lambos, Johanson, Masters? you don't think giving them an honest trial would make sense over locking up Midds for the next 3 years? or what's going to happen if one or two of them show up and we have no place for them? but they can't even show up cause now we have no room for them!

brodin-faber spurge-midds chissy-bogo zeev too. where are you going to play them? back in minors. 

The fact some of those guys are struggling to have success in the AHL doesn't exactly scream 'GIVE THEM A SHOT' in the NHL to me. If one or two show up and we don't have a place, then you can trade them off for a different need. I don't think that we're going to suddenly see them all blossom into top-4 players. 

I mean compare Chisholm's AHL success to those guys' and then take note of how he has still struggled on NHL ice despite the higher AHL production.

Also, injuries happen you know. There will be opportunities for some of these guys to turn into the 6th or 7th Dman over the next couple seasons thanks to Merril and Bogo falling off the books next year and the following season also. And at that point, if they haven't traded him off yet, Spurgy will be on the final year of his deal. 

Maybe we can worry about Middleton blocking one of these guys when one of them actually shows he'd be an improvement. 

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

The fact some of those guys are struggling to have success in the AHL doesn't exactly scream 'GIVE THEM A SHOT' in the NHL to me. If one or two show up and we don't have a place, then you can trade them off for a different need. I don't think that we're going to suddenly see them all blossom into top-4 players. 

I mean compare Chisholm's AHL success to those guys' and then take note of how he has still struggled on NHL ice despite the higher AHL production.

Also, injuries happen you know. There will be opportunities for some of these guys to turn into the 6th or 7th Dman over the next couple seasons thanks to Merril and Bogo falling off the books next year and the following season also. And at that point, if they haven't traded him off yet, Spurgy will be on the final year of his deal. 

Maybe we can worry about Middleton blocking one of these guys when one of them actually shows he'd be an improvement. 

to say that none of these D prospects merit a closer look at the big club speaks highly about the horrible scouting that we have. why should we have any faith in what judy is doing then? none of his D prospects can play even as a third pair in NHL yet? really? not even for the club that will play for bottom 2-3 spots in the division (per my optimistic outlook)?  if that's the case - then you fire judy right now. 

[B1GKappa97]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

to say that none of these D prospects merit a closer look at the big club speaks highly about the horrible scouting that we have. why should we have any faith in what judy is doing then? none of his D prospects can play even as a third pair in NHL yet? really? not even for the club that will play for bottom 2-3 spots in the division (per my optimistic outlook)?  if that's the case - then you fire judy right now. 

Fire him 'cause his late 1st, 2nd round and 3rd round defensemen aren't 3rd pair guys within 3 years?

Nobody is saying they won't get there, just that they aren't there yet and its unlikely they'll have multiple prospects ready for that by the '25-'26 season to the point where they shouldn't resign a Middleton. 

 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Fire him 'cause his late 1st, 2nd round and 3rd round defensemen aren't 3rd pair guys within 3 years?

Nobody is saying they won't get there, just that they aren't there yet and its unlikely they'll have multiple prospects ready for that by the '25-'26 season to the point where they shouldn't resign a Middleton. 

 

he hit on nothing. yes fire him.

argh preds - Marchy, Skjei, and Stamy. 

[FredJohnson]

On 6/30/2024 at 8:33 AM, Patrick said:

I couldn't agree more. In fact, barring something extreme like Spurgeon retiring, I'd say resigning Middleton would be borderline brain dead. Players like Middleton are available every free agency and trade deadline. There is zero reason to sign him now and plenty of reasons not to.

Who? And for how much?

[FredJohnson]

If the Wild kept Middleton under contract for five more years (including the last season of his current deal), it would signal a lack of faith in their prospect pool.

It's also the need for his size even if he doesn't use it well enough.