Article: Is Marcus Johansson A Wild Card Or A Sunk Cost?

[raithis]

20 hours ago, Protec said:

I don't know NyQuist wanted to stay in MN

This should be considered when also saying we could have gotten Pius Suter or Nosek for x.  Some players just aren't interested in certain teams.  Maybe they don't like the location or they feel like they'll get more sponsorship deals elsewhere, every player is different.  Some even will sign for a team they aren't particularly keen about, but might only do if for more money than they would have been willing to do elsewhere.  Point is, if one team signs a player for x at x years, it doesn't mean that the Wild could have gotten the same player for the same amount and term.

[raithis]

I feel like the best scenario is that Johansson ends up being the 13th forward to start the season because other players beat him out of a spot.  If that happens, I'm fine with him being an injury replacement.  If we don't have injuries and need to move him to the AHL after that and someone claims him off waivers, well shucks I guess we'll have to live with that.

[raithis]

20 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Sammy W - his time with the wild in 2022 was really impressive but then he kind of got a quick shot and then got burried so if he can get more of a fair shot

He got multiple shots.  Outside of that initial little bit, he was damn near invisible on the ice in every other game he played.  Khusnutdinov and Ohgren looked better in the few games they played than Walker ever did.

[FredJohnson]

This could be a risky move given Gustavsson's upside and how good he was during the 2022-23 season, but goalie is a position where the Wild have some quality depth and they don't really have many other reasonable trade options.

The Wild are still dealing with the salary cap fallout that is coming from the Ryan Suter and Zach Parise buyouts and will have $15 million in empty cap space on their books for one more season.

They also have some big holes to fill throughout their roster and not many avenues to fix them.

Gustavsson's contract ($3.5 million) is very reasonable, and he might be an attractive goaltending option for a goalie-needy contender.

The Wild also still have Marc-Andre Fleury for another season and former first-round pick Jesper Wallstedt who is coming off two strong seasons in the American Hockey League. He is probably their future at the position, and could make Gustavsson a decent trade chip this summer.

Source: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10125007-1-trade-idea-for-every-team-watching-the-stanley-cup-final

[MacGyver]

17 minutes ago, raithis said:

This should be considered when also saying we could have gotten Pius Suter or Nosek for x.  Some players just aren't interested in certain teams.  Maybe they don't like the location or they feel like they'll get more sponsorship deals elsewhere, every player is different.  Some even will sign for a team they aren't particularly keen about, but might only do if for more money than they would have been willing to do elsewhere.  Point is, if one team signs a player for x at x years, it doesn't mean that the Wild could have gotten the same player for the same amount and term.

Too many people do not understand this. I bet 20 different players have been mentioned recently about being brought here. With Brady Tkachuk leading the parade. Players have more control about where they will go now then they have ever had. Everyone has some level of NTC or NMC written into their contract. The Wild are not a destination team right now. No winning culture, small market and probably most of all one of the highest income tax rates in the league. And I doubt Guerin's front office issues have gone unnoticed by the rest of the league.

You can lust after anyone of the mentioned players but they have to have a desire to come here for it to work. Tkachuk's NTC does not kick in yet but even if Ottowa wanted to trade him which they do not they would not send him someplace he does not want to go. 

[Protec]

55 minutes ago, raithis said:

This should be considered when also saying we could have gotten Pius Suter or Nosek for x.  Some players just aren't interested in certain teams.  Maybe they don't like the location or they feel like they'll get more sponsorship deals elsewhere, every player is different.  Some even will sign for a team they aren't particularly keen about, but might only do if for more money than they would have been willing to do elsewhere.  Point is, if one team signs a player for x at x years, it doesn't mean that the Wild could have gotten the same player for the same amount and term.

Fair enough but there were other options which is the point I was making about NoJo. He had a good month and Guerin pushed all his chips to the middle with the quick contract to bring NoJo in for two years. The cost wasn't too high so it seemed safe but turns out to be a total counting chickens before they hatch scenario that is kinda a nothingburger result. Needle not movin.

[Protec]

Big game Barclay Goodrow just waived by the NYR...

Perfect example of why NoJo is dead weight. His contract and presence in MN keeps the Wild from be able to pickup a veteran who plays the same position and performs in the playoffs when sandpaper style hockey rules. Stick-dropper, water-ski backcheckers not needed in MN. Might as well mention Foligno as well.

Just sayin, the Wild are locked in their cap misery with #17, #89 , and #90 hoggin 8M worth of space forcing the question why THOSE guys? Why not any other three-pack of players.

When Guerin started we liked that he was roster shuffling and it appeared that via numerous kicks at the can, the Wild would hit on some low-cost auditions. On one hand, that's how the Wild got Guadreau and NoJo. On the other, it's why not to get caught up too deep with those player types. A year or two later for the Rangers or the Wild, looking at budgets, production, and potential to upgrade means some room needs to be cleared for the future. In MN's case, the contract-clauses lock guys in.

Goodrow is a similar style player to Foligno, lower-cost, better playoff performer, better winning-history, and younger. Makes ya think. Didn't score a lot of regular season points this year, but he had identical TOI and points as NoJo last season. I'm not saying the English version of Goodrow would be super, way-better than our French-Canadian Gaudreau or solve all of MN's problems, but how does Guerin justify his guys in this tier of players versus the many other similar options???

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, raithis said:

He got multiple shots.  Outside of that initial little bit, he was damn near invisible on the ice in every other game he played.  Khusnutdinov and Ohgren looked better in the few games they played than Walker ever did.

this year yes, but last year he stood out to me. had that speed and playmaking ability, but just never got a true test but that's just the way it is, you got to seize the moment and he didn't do that in 3-4 games he played this year. unfair? maybe but i am cautiously excited to see what he got cooking in training camp this year

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Protec said:

He had a good month and Guerin pushed all his chips to the middle with the quick contract to bring NoJo

I think Guerin thought he found the Rosetta Stone to unlock Boldy’s potential.  NoJo was Robin to Boldy’s Batman.  John to Boldy’s Paunch.  Barney to Boldy’s Andy.  Barney to Boldy’s rubble.  Well Guerin f$&@:( that up too didn’t he.  Any decent hockey whisperer can smell the weakness coming off NoJo and runs the other direction

Edited June 18 by Pewterschmidt

[Pewterschmidt]

49 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

this year yes, but last year he stood out to me. had that speed and playmaking ability, but just never got a true test but that's just the way it is, you got to seize the moment and he didn't do that in 3-4 games he played this year. unfair? maybe but i am cautiously excited to see what he got cooking in training camp this year

Walker plays with a softness that doesn’t fly in nhl unless you’re an offensive game breaker.  I’m afraid Beckman is the same player.  Walker 2.0.  Again they’ll both make nice paychecks in Europe, but they need to be out of our farm system to clear space for Guerin& co’s prospects. 

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Walker plays with a softness that doesn’t fly in nhl unless you’re an offensive game breaker.  I’m afraid Beckman is the same player.  Walker 2.0.  Again they’ll both make nice paychecks in Europe, but they need to be out of our farm system to clear space for Guerin& co’s prospects. 

yeah maybe you right. but he did have some slick moves with the stick. i'll remember him for that.

[Pewterschmidt]

15 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeah maybe you right. but he did have some slick moves with the stick. i'll remember him for that.

He’s a hell of a skater

[mnfaninnc]

For this one, I think the choice is easy. Buying him out is a dumb idea and should just be jettisoned from our minds. We're talking about a $2m contract with an NTC. 

It is fairly simple to move around the NTC. Ask him where he'd like to go because if he enacts his NTC, he will be put on waivers and sent to the A. 

If he passes through waivers, he goes to Iowa, or we could loan him to Sweden. If he doesn't pass through waivers which I would suggest is likely, he becomes part of another team NOT of his choosing, and we are off the hook of $2m. 

The benefit we get for subtracting Johansson from the roster is a roster spot for an ELC contract (essentially a wash). It's the roster spot we want, not necessarily the $2m. Surely someone will step up on take that spot. 

But, if no one does, then we get to have Johansson on the roster because we didn't have anyone better internally. I still believe in Beckman but he needs plenty of strength weight. If he can come into camp bulked up, I think he has a serious chance of beating him out. If he comes into camp his same scrawny self, he will be back in Iowa and should have been traded. 

Walker is not going to be better than Johansson. He's a nice callup, but will always be just below an NHL roster. I'm also hoping for the next step from Bankier and Milne. 

But, ODC is right, these guys haven't made it yet and may never amount to anything. Come on guys, prove it!

[mnfaninnc]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:30 PM, MrCheatachu said:

Hynsie's job as a coach is to ice the best team, with lines that maximize the potential to win the game with the pieces that BillyG made available to him.  If Mojo's the best available, then damnit, we got to make Mojo work.

I think this is the key. If Heinzy can find a spot for him, then he'll be in that slot. But, if Heinzy goes to Guerin and says "we've got to get rid of this guy, he simply won't listen to my coaching and is a liability on the ice" Guerin will have to oblige. Now, to be fair, Heinzy's got to sit Johansson down in the office and specifically tell him what he needs from him on a nightly basis, and then the rest is up to Johansson. To me, this has already happened, and Johansson has played himself on to Iowa's (or a Swedish team's) roster.

[mnfaninnc]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:32 PM, MrCheatachu said:

except we're broke...we cant afford anything nice.  I challenge you to find me a better available player for $1.15M/season who's available.  And remember, I watched all last season so if you say any player from Iowa, you're gonna get smacked with a rolled up newspaper.

Someone on an ELC who catches the coach's eye in training camp. There's really not a veteran we can bring in that will be better at that price. So, it would need to be an internal move. Possibly Bankier or Milne could impress enough. This will be year 3 in professional hockey for Milne. That might be enough. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

11 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

This could be a risky move given Gustavsson's upside and how good he was during the 2022-23 season, but goalie is a position where the Wild have some quality depth and they don't really have many other reasonable trade options

The Wild would not have quality depth if they traded Gustavsson. He's what allows someone to suggest the Wild have quality depth. Fleury is below average and we have no idea what level of play to expect from Wallstedt. They have no proven quality depth behind Gustavsson.

As much as people liked to say it was unfair to play Wallstedt against Dallas(a top 5 offense) in his 1st game, they didn't challenge him late when they had him face literally the worst 2 offenses in the NHL, and both were significantly less capable of scoring than the 3rd worst offense.

I like Wallstedt's potential to become an average to above average starter in the NHL for the 25-26 year, but Fleury is likely to be below average again this season.

[Fezig]

22 hours ago, Protec said:

The thing is, he was here in a contract year before and it ended badly. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Vegas broke his shoulder on a very NoJo-esque half-effort jam at a loose puck. Not a high-skill Euro play.

"If the grit don't fit, you must demote to Swedish-spritzer league." 

😁 I'm still working on the ending. Suggestions welcome. I was thinking "it's Euro-shit" but I don't wanna do racist against Euros. Or like what Guerin said about Talbot and his agent, "I don't have to do shit." 🤣 In the case of NoJo or Laine, "If the grit don't fit, it ain't a good get."

"If the grit don't fit, fill in the blank"

 

I guess the question begs....can you be racist against an entire continent? 

[Protec]

55 minutes ago, Fezig said:

I guess the question begs....can you be racist against an entire continent? 

Here's my top favorite Euros.

Grandpa Jagr, Peter Forsberg, Bobby Holik, Johan Franzen, Barkov, maybe Marian Hossa, or Selanne who were less gritty but super effective players and winners.

Just ask around or think of Euros you've played with. 90% or more of them take shifts off, can't hit or take a hit. Lose their minds when the refs don't call penalties. They're into cartoons, techno music, video games, and socialism. Gaborik was a perfect example. League max deal and then he has a pulled groin for three seasons...

It's very much true I prefer NA players for a hockey team if everything else is the same. Joke about it is, I got kicked off this site once for "racism against Euros" haha. 😆

[Protec]

[Protec]

Couldn't happen to a better hot-dog spokeman. 😄

[Protec]

Keumper to the Kings for DuBois.

[Fezig]

22 hours ago, Protec said:

Here's my top favorite Euros.

Grandpa Jagr, Peter Forsberg, Bobby Holik, Johan Franzen, Barkov, maybe Marian Hossa, or Selanne who were less gritty but super effective players and winners.

Just ask around or think of Euros you've played with. 90% or more of them take shifts off, can't hit or take a hit. Lose their minds when the refs don't call penalties. They're into cartoons, techno music, video games, and socialism. Gaborik was a perfect example. League max deal and then he has a pulled groin for three seasons...

It's very much true I prefer NA players for a hockey team if everything else is the same. Joke about it is, I got kicked off this site once for "racism against Euros" haha. 😆

That's funny! Stereotyping is not racism. I'd say it's an identification of tendencies. For example... if I said that guy drinks like a fish, pees in the sink, and smells of cheese, you would naturally assume he's from....

[Protec]

Eskimo. 

Got the reference though.😁

 

[Willy the poor boy]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:01 AM, Protec said:

The thing is, he was here in a contract year before and it ended badly. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Vegas broke his shoulder on a very NoJo-esque half-effort jam at a loose puck. Not a high-skill Euro play.

"If the grit don't fit, you must demote to Swedish-spritzer league." 

😁 I'm still working on the ending. Suggestions welcome. I was thinking "it's Euro-shit" but I don't wanna do racist against Euros. Or like what Guerin said about Talbot and his agent, "I don't have to do shit." 🤣 In the case of NoJo or Laine, "If the grit don't fit, it ain't a good get."

"If the grit don't fit, fill in the blank"

 

Do not commit.

Wild FO should cool it.

[Willy the poor boy]

On 6/18/2024 at 10:02 AM, Dis-allowed display name said:

He is a sunk cost.   I  start him, but on the lowest line possible given his effort level in camp.  Give him the ability to work his way up or down with his play.  If he plays his way into the press box, fine.  Give him a couple opportunities to play and if nothing changes, Iowa it is.   If he waives the clause, fine, if not I-O-W-A.   

I think it helps a great deal that it is a contract year.  He will either put in some effort in a desperate attempt to stay in the league, or just not care and accept this is the end.  

The Wild are not a cup contender this year so who cares?  He is one and done.  I also think he will be a bit better this year because it would be hard to be worse.  But there are carrots and sticks.  The team needs to start using sticks.

The Cap went up about 4 mill or so, so I'm sure he'll be thinking superglue will be a good investment this year to ensure 1 more good contract.