Article: Marco Rossi Showing He's A Big-Game Player At Worlds

[mnfaninnc]

8 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

What an odd and kind of condescending way to put it. By that rationale all other forms of hockey are inferior.

Mateo, you're right, it was meant to be condescending. Sure there's some high skill involved, I'll give you that, but it's much lower intensity than the NHL playoffs. It's like the difference between coming across a growing bear cub on a walk vs. having to deal with mama bear protecting her cub. This is the type of tournament where a guy can show off great cardio shifts and actually put up points.

Some may enjoy it, and that's their choice. I am not one of those people.

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

hockey is a team game right? and ottawa has not been relevant since heater was on that team. i can care less about the record or his plus/minus. i bet his brother in calgary didn't have an eye popping stats as he does now in florida with  a better cast of players....and i bet the same on eichel. and yes i would bet on brady over boldy. 

Matthew was incredible in Calgary, what are you talking about?

[OldDutchChip]

18 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Matthew was incredible in Calgary, what are you talking about?

i am talking about how he became an MVP candidate once he joined a new team. 

he was under the radar (yes i said under the radar given that he still has not blossomed into tier 1 elite player yet - he did that in Florida), just like eichel was (who now is likely a tier 1 player), just like stone was and just like brady is now.  We have a chance to get a second borderline tier 1 player and all that stands in the way is Boldy? huh whats the problem here? even discarding the player to player comparison, you can't not see the impact that it will carry for team build up can you not???? kap has been abused by all central foes. do you think ANYONE will take cheap shots now when he skates with Brady? cause they sure were scared when Boldy was out there! sometimes its more than just stats and historical performances or bias or whatnot.  

 

 

Edited May 23 by OldDutchChip

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

You're delusional if you think one player in Tkachuk will change that while giving up all our developing prospects. I have seen nothing out of Tkachuk to signify he is worth that. He has zero won playoff series to his name on a team that was suppose to be ready to make a run the last three years.

I think he might be mixing me up with you on this. Yes, I do believe one player in Tkachuk will be a difference maker for the franchise. His intensity level and ability to get everyone playing harder is very hard to ignore. He's got different kind of intangibles. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think he might be mixing me up with you on this. Yes, I do believe one player in Tkachuk will be a difference maker for the franchise. His intensity level and ability to get everyone playing harder is very hard to ignore. He's got different kind of intangibles. 

i won't disagree with that 🍻

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Did you see nothing from Matthew Tkachuk or Eichel?

Funny that, Rossi (40) had almost as many points in his rookie season as Matt (43) and Brady (45) did. Eichel is about equivalent in points to Boldy. Boldy had the same amount of point as Eichel did in both their age 21 seasons. 10pts less in their age 22 seasons. Eichel has never put up over 90 pts and on average 60-70pts which is right where Boldy sits now. At age 22. Without all the injury worries. I am advocating for keeping these young guys and letting them develop instead of throwing them all away, plus futures and picks, for one player.

 

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Yeah cause Yurov is amazing and Heidt is amazing. We are all amazing! Tyler Graovac is amazing. Beckman is amazing. Stramel is amazing. Zach Phillips is amazing. Sokolov is amazing. You right! Nothing can go wrong. Proceed as normal. 🤔 

You must not pay attention. Yurov just broke the record for an age 22 season in the KHL, so yes, it is safe to say he will have high expectations coming in. Heidt is a bit more of a question mark but we won't get to see what they are if we trade them all away on a single player. Stramel isn't amazing and has shown nothing to indicate that. 

P.S. That guy Boldy who you're advocating to trade also had more points in his age 21 and 22 season that Tkachuk did. 

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Stop taking words out of context. I said Tkachuk and many other options too.

 

Yes you did say other players that are equally expensive to acquire chasing some pie in the sky that will never happen unless we pay out the nose. My comment was meant to convey that one piece is not going to change our trajectory and it will be far more valuable to keep the players we have and let them develop instead of selling low on them. Let me be clear, selling Rossi or Boldy now is doing exactly that, selling low.  

 

Your entire preface to this is we will lose Kap if we don't sell the farm for a "top 5 player" and I simply don't agree. It is using alarmism to sell a trade that is a clear loss and that isn't good business. 

My point is one good player or another (we don't have the salary cap space for more) isn't going to turn this into a cup competitor. Those are primarily built through the draft. Our strong point is currently our top line. Why try to address something that isn't an issue. Furthermore, how does gutting our prospects and futures for one good player convince Kap to stay? It doesn't make the aging role player we have locked in on NMC's and NTC's play any better and we can't change them out yet. Our top line can score all it wants, if we have no supplementary scoring we won't go far.

Edited May 23 by TheGoosesAreLooses

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

i am talking about how he became an MVP candidate once he joined a new team. 

he was under the radar (yes i said under the radar given that he still has not blossomed into tier 1 elite player yet - he did that in Florida), just like eichel was (who now is likely a tier 1 player), just like stone was and just like brady is now. 

Matthew was an MVP candidate in Calgary. In 2021-22, he had 42 goals, 104 points, and finished Top-10 in WAR. I think Brady is a good player, but not even close to the Matthew/Eichel/Stone level. 

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

We have a chance to get a second borderline tier 1 player and all that stands in the way is Boldy? huh whats the problem here? even discarding the player to player comparison, you can't not see the impact that it will carry for team build up can you not????

I think Boldy is a better player both right now and when you adjust for age. I think Boldy is more talented than Tkachuk, and a more complete player. 

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

do you think ANYONE will take cheap shots now when he skates with Brady? cause they sure were scared when Boldy was out there! sometimes its more than just stats and historical performances or bias or whatnot.  

Dude, Morgan Freaking Rielly (three fights in his career) took cheap shots at the Ottawa Senators last year. I don't think anyone's afraid of Brady Tkachuk. 

[OldDutchChip]

30 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Funny that, Rossi (40) had almost as many points in his rookie season as Matt (43) and Brady (45) did. Eichel is about equivalent in points to Boldy. Boldy had the same amount of point as Eichel did in both their age 21 seasons. 10pts less in their age 22 seasons. Eichel has never put up over 90 pts and on average 60-70pts which is right where Boldy sits now. At age 22. Without all the injury worries. I am advocating for keeping these young guys and letting them develop instead of throwing them all away, plus futures and picks, for one player.

 

You must not pay attention. Yurov just broke the record for an age 22 season in the KHL, so yes, it is safe to say he will have high expectations coming in. Heidt is a bit more of a question mark but we won't get to see what they are if we trade them all away on a single player. Stramel isn't amazing and has shown nothing to indicate that. 

P.S. That guy Boldy who you're advocating to trade also had more points in his age 21 and 22 season that Tkachuk did. 

 

Yes you did say other players that are equally expensive to acquire chasing some pie in the sky that will never happen unless we pay out the nose. My comment was meant to convey that one piece is not going to change our trajectory and it will be far more valuable to keep the players we have and let them develop instead of selling low on them. Let me be clear, selling Rossi or Boldy now is doing exactly that, selling low.  

 

Your entire preface to this is we will lose Kap if we don't sell the farm for a "top 5 player" and I simply don't agree. It is using alarmism to sell a trade that is a clear loss and that isn't good business. 

My point is one good player or another (we don't have the salary cap space for more) isn't going to turn this into a cup competitor. Those are primarily built through the draft. Our strong point is currently our top line. Why try to address something that isn't an issue. Furthermore, how does gutting our prospects and futures for one good player convince Kap to stay? It doesn't make the aging role player we have locked in on NMC's and NTC's play any better and we can't change them out yet. Our top line can score all it wants, if we have no supplementary scoring we won't go far.

Its about certainty. how confident are you with Rossi. what is his ceiling, strength, weaknesses, do you have surplus of similar assets that could be plugged in, and what is your vision for what's missing on player level and team level. my assessment is 

(i) team now has an identity behind kaprizov, but is at very high risk of loosing him and derailing all the progress

(ii) you need to understand that normal progression is just not going to work (it may of course but honestly,  my hunch is that status quo will lead to Kap saying - thank you, goodbye at the end) hence you need to show commitment - that involves placing leadership on to kap (C) and driving results Immediately

this is all within the control of the team. you do that, then IF he does leave, you at least gave your self the best chance. for that you have to take what you accumulated and the assets that have not depreciated in value and act. it may be a sour feeling for those of us that are attached to these prospects, but it is what it is. imagine two teams ONE with Kap and no Rossi and team TWO with Kap and potentially Guentzel or Tkachuk or a proven tough scorer and leader (Rossi is none of that YET) 

There is no selling the farm with any of my proposal. we have accumulated a top ranked prospect list last year with additional picks and prospects coming in now. We are not talking about trading 10 prospects plus all our future. So enough of that. Stop looking for what will be and start working for what IS. This uncertainty with Kap may be a blessing in disguise for the team but only IF we become more aggressive than we usually are and willing to parlay uncertainty and add risk for greater reward. Time will tell which way we go. 

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Some may enjoy it, and that's their choice. I am not one of those people.

I like it.  Bigger ice is kind of fun to watch.

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Matthew was an MVP candidate in Calgary. In 2021-22, he had 42 goals, 104 points, and finished Top-10 in WAR. I think Brady is a good player, but not even close to the Matthew/Eichel/Stone level. 

I think Boldy is a better player both right now and when you adjust for age. I think Boldy is more talented than Tkachuk, and a more complete player. 

Dude, Morgan Freaking Rielly (three fights in his career) took cheap shots at the Ottawa Senators last year. I don't think anyone's afraid of Brady Tkachuk. 

Matthew was not viewed by many as he is viewed now, that's just a fact - recall many felt the deal for Huberdeau wasn't too bad for calgary. point for point they were close (Huberdeau actually edges out Tkachuk here) but the intangibles can be lost when comparing solely stats. This is what i am calling out with Tkachuk. He is closer to his brother at least to my eye test, with somewhat similar stats that are showing improvements over the last two years. And he is feared and a brute. Boldy can score 30 goals, he can score 40 next year, but he won't prevent the opposite team from doing what they have done to Kap now for 4-5 years. And i guarantee that matters to Kap. You think no one is scared of Brady - that is funny and un true. 

[Tony Abbott]

All I've had to hear over the last decade is how some Big Chungus is going to stop teams from taking liberties with the Wild. Zenon Konopka, Mike Rupp, Matt Hendricks, Kurtis Gabriel, Nic Deslauriers, Ryan Reaves, Pat Maroon. The next time it works will be the first time.

[MacGyver]

This obsession with Brady Tkachuk? Is Ottowa even trying to move him? Last thing I read is if he goes anywhere it would most likely be New Jersey. His wife is from there and he owns property there. The Devils GM is a cousin to the Tkachuk's. All this bantering and vapors over something that is never going to happen. 

[Protec]

That's cause the Wild have never been a truly tough team. Always entitled and mentally weak. That's why one cement-head type guy doesn't do squat. The Wild build teams around guys like Zucker, Granlund, Brodin, Spurgeon, and a bunch of skill guys. The attitudes towards a Tkachuk is the reaction. The consensus is the Wild are small and wimpy getting bullied lacking toughness which we've seen plenty of evidence of. Sure there's skilled core guys and one Erriksson Ek currently in that group to be proud of but the decades of shortfalls with PMB type players is why people no longer believe finesse guys and Euros are gonna get the Wild over the hump no matter how great their regular seasons or World championship tourney is.

 

[Protec]

3 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

This obsession with Brady Tkachuk? Is Ottowa even trying to move him? Last thing I read is if he goes anywhere it would most likely be New Jersey. His wife is from there and he owns property there. The Devils GM is a cousin to the Tkachuk's. All this bantering and vapors over something that is never going to happen. 

You are most likely correct. Some fans wanted Laine when he was new in WPG and that woulda been terrible for the Wild. Brady Tkachuk is just the idea of a player MN has only had a little sniff of with an again Owen Nolan or a leader like Rolston who could score a big goal when the team needed one. 

The Wild have issues and it's not Ek or Kaprizov or Faber. Boldy and Rossi are good players. Boldy has proven more but the overall issue is the group and it's dynamic most. They aren't bad, but certainly aren't in the league's top 10.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

All I've had to hear over the last decade is how some Big Chungus is going to stop teams from taking liberties with the Wild. Zenon Konopka, Mike Rupp, Matt Hendricks, Kurtis Gabriel, Nic Deslauriers, Ryan Reaves, Pat Maroon. The next time it works will be the first time.

None of these guys also had the hands of Tkachuk. It's in their blood, his father had it, his brother has it, and so does Brady. These are different intangibles than your list above. His passion and hate to lose is unrivaled, and it's very unsettling for Brady, possibly to the point where he asks his GM for out. 

Guerin's got him on his roster now, I think it would be a good time to find out what he's thinking.

[mnfaninnc]

49 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

This obsession with Brady Tkachuk? Is Ottowa even trying to move him? Last thing I read is if he goes anywhere it would most likely be New Jersey. His wife is from there and he owns property there. The Devils GM is a cousin to the Tkachuk's. All this bantering and vapors over something that is never going to happen. 

And Brady is from the St. Louis area. If I were Ottawa, I sure would send him west. I wouldn't want to face him more than twice a year.

[mnfaninnc]

42 minutes ago, Protec said:

Some fans wanted Laine when he was new in WPG and that woulda been terrible for the Wild.

I was and still am one of those guys. I'm not sure what's going on inside his head, but I'm pretty sure that Mikko Koivu can fix him. Plus, if all he does is stand in Ovechkin's office, we're a better team.

[Protec]

My point is that the Wild needed scoring then and the idea of a 30-40 goal guy becomes an obsession. Now the Wild look weak and timid so a big womprat type player seems like the answer but it's never that simple. 

MN needs guys to meet the expectations of their contracts. They need prospects to live up to the hype. Goalies need to stop the puck when it matters most and the GM has to make smart deals. On top of that, the Wild need a coach that can win in the playoffs. Sheldon Keefe is headed to NJ so we'll see how that works out. Somehow DeBoer and Maurice are in the conference finals again. The other teams have the best duo in the game or the top defender with center depth. The same themes always arise at this stage.  

[OldDutchChip]

4 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

All I've had to hear over the last decade is how some Big Chungus is going to stop teams from taking liberties with the Wild. Zenon Konopka, Mike Rupp, Matt Hendricks, Kurtis Gabriel, Nic Deslauriers, Ryan Reaves, Pat Maroon. The next time it works will be the first time.

aha!!!! so you expecting tkachuk to play 4th line as all your other buffons did? cool understood. yeah let's go with Rossi centering Kap and boldy. HAHA done you have your opinion i have mine.

 

[Mateo3xm]

On 5/23/2024 at 3:56 PM, MacGyver said:

This obsession with Brady Tkachuk? Is Ottowa even trying to move him? Last thing I read is if he goes anywhere it would most likely be New Jersey. His wife is from there and he owns property there. The Devils GM is a cousin to the Tkachuk's. All this bantering and vapors over something that is never going to happen. 

Exactly. There was never any serious talk about it, it was a rumor that went away quickly but people on here can’t seem to let it go. It just doesn’t make sense to me why they keep talking about it. Why would he want to come to Mn? In 3 years, I think Ottawa is going to be crazy good. They are one of the youngest nhl teams.