Article: The Wild Must Resist Temptation To Extend Jake Middleton

[Tony Abbott]

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[Citizen Strife]

Middleton's in a weird spot.  With Spurgeon, he was a serviceable Top 4.  However, this year showed how limited he can be and even detrimental even with Faber as his partner.  Like -15 or something crazy.  Even a bottom pairing defender would be charitable.

I think it will be a case of "pricing himself out."  Guerin shouldn't give him either give him longer term/less AAV, or the opposite.  If he asks for anything over $3.5m, Guerin should look elsewhere.

[mnfaninnc]

My eye test saw different things this past season. 1st, Middleton's start, while decent offensively, had him looking fairly lost without his normal partner in Spurgeon. I believe for a large part of the season, he was below replaceable. 

But I also thought that Middleton look a step faster, was playing a little more offensively and after Bogosian got here, his physical play slightly picked up. This is a big factor for me here. And the biggest factor when comparing Middleton to Merrill. Middleton is far more a physical presence than Merrill is. 

I really don't have a problem with extending Middleton, but would like to see him more in the $3m range. With the cap going up the next few years, this will be a bargain signing. Whether or not Middleton would sign for that is another conversation. 

My hope is that Shooter will look at his "cost certainty" strategy and realize this was a fail. I'd prefer to see where Middleton is around the TDL and see how bad he wants to stay here. The biggest problem we have as an organization is that our defenders that have been drafted have been shorter and more of the skating/puck moving category. That's nice until you have to tie someone up in your own end or protect a teammate. Without drafting defensive size along with the puck movers, Brackett has made a mistake. Currently, there is no one who provides a game similar to Midsy's. 

Like it or not, come playoff time, you've got to have Middleton/Bogosian type players, who can turn up the mean and play big boy hockey. They wouldn't be a bad 3rd pair. I thought out best defensive season was when we had Cole and Soucy as the 3rd pairing. They played heavy and shut down everything. Good PK pair too. 

I'd like to keep him in the fold, but as Tony said, the Price needs to be Right!

[Imyourhuckleberry]

20 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

I think it will be a case of "pricing himself out."  Guerin shouldn't give him either give him longer term/less AAV, or the opposite.  If he asks for anything over $3.5m, Guerin should look elsewhere.

Perhaps Guerin will bring back Dumba on a reasonable low-cost deal and trade Middleton?

I wouldn't mind either being around with a deal near $2.5M, but anything over $3M for what they provide does seem unnecessary, particularly with term.

[mnfaninnc]

29 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Perhaps Guerin will bring back Dumba on a reasonable low-cost deal and trade Middleton?

Dumba's another smallish defender, though he hits above his weight. He was valuable when he still had the offensive upside, but since the injuries and he can no longer shoot, his value has deeply diminished. I wouldn't want him back, I'd rather just go with Chisholm. 

I was a huge Dumba defender prior to his last season with us, but it was obvious from the eye test that he was damaged goods. Too bad, too, he had a lot of promise. 

Middleton adds that strong muscle and body positioning that Dumba simply can't do. Plus, switching out an LHS for an RHS isn't the best plan. We need a big body on that left side. Brodin and Chisholm can't do that. Hunt maybe. Merrill has reach but that's about it. 

Maybe we could pry Bahl away from the Devils and trade Middleton?

[OldDutchChip]

if he wants to resign for 2x2 then ok maybe

anything above that is a NO

hell NO for 4.5 mil per - this is insane

let's be clear, he really is not as physically engaging as he should be out there. his skating is not good. yes he has a good mustache, which is why i am willing to go 2x2. otherwise, see ya. you have outlived your use middy.

i'd ship him out with his friend spurgy to calgary for i dunno maybe kadri or maybe somewhere else for someone else? i am done with both spurge and him. 

[Protec]

How much mustache and heart monitor gimmick-points can a guy get?

Too many... 😁

[Citizen Strife]

I think what is important is a couple things.  Will the Wild select a defenseman, and what Spurgeon and others do early in the season.  I'm not saying who they pick will be anywhere close to the NHL, but if they take someone like Yakemchuk or any other sizeable later (Pulkkinen), it makes keeping Middleton for a high price less favorable.  

I will say how crazy it is how blessed the Wild's defense was practically Suter/Spurgeon, Brodin/Dumba, etc for nearly a decade.  Pretty weird seeing it in flux so much.

 

Edited May 15 by Citizen Strife

[mnfaninnc]

42 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

but if they take someone like Yakemchuk or any other sizeable later (Pulkkinen), it makes keeping Middleton for a high price less favorable.  

I'm hoping for Pulkkinen, and taking Lindstrom in round 1. However, with Pulkkinen, he's probably ready at a minimum of 3 seasons, more likely 4-5. That said, you have to fill the void, and Midsy is a good filler. So, I would plan on about a 4 year deal where Midsy has very limited trade protection those last 2 years. 

Middleton is not the greatest skater on the team, but I thought it was better last season. If he spends more time with Andy Ness, like it looks like he did this past offseason, maybe we still get improvement from a late bloomer? 

I also believe that his physical play could be more pronounced. I do believe since he was the only large body back there for a long time, the team asked him to back off, they needed him on the ice. Now with Bogosian in the lineup, I think he can get more aggressive and start throwing big, heavy hits again. We need that in the lineup, and I would bet that Heinzy will be encouraging that. 

To me, this is one difference between Heinzy and Evason, Heinzy likes the finishing of checks, Evason could live without it. And Heinzy's big bodies need to be punishing opponents on a nightly basis. That's why they're here.

[Pewterschmidt]

Midzy is just the kind of big body that playoff teams over pay for at trade deadline.  Guerin, I know you probably dream about midzy’s mustache at night but please do the right thing and trade him for assets at deadline. If Wild announce a 3 year extension with NMC this summer I will begin sharpening my pitchfork.  Don’t be dumb Guerin 

[Patrick]

Advanced Hockey stats suck example 10,335.  Merrill flat out sucked and was barely serviceable in the most protected roll his coach could find. Middleton battled hard and was barely serviceable in a role waaay above his skill set.  Next year we have a top 4 of Faber, Brodin, Spurgeon and Middleton and I predict a "shocking" rebound in his advanced stats.  Having said that ... Middleton at 2.5 or even 3 sounds good. Anything above that and id pass.  Playing as the 4th d with those other three guys is a pretty easy job that a lot of guys can fill.

[Burnt Toast]

I’ve noticed that the top teams in the NHL do a good job of moving out and moving on from players on their roster. Those choices are just as important as the ones during the draft, FA etc. I honestly can’t give the current management team a passing grade in this regard. The Wild DO NOT have the luxury of keeping players because they “like” them. Not if they want to be a winning organization anyways. Mids is a third pair defender on a good team. As noted in previous comments he’d be perfect for a trade deadline deal. Personally I like Mids and if he ended up on a team making a run I’d hope for the best. 

[Fezig]

It could never be argued that Merrill is better than anyone. Never.

[Protec]

There are examples from last Summer where Guerin got hosed by other GMs who signed players for less AAV who were more productive than Guerins guys. Nyquist and Pius Suter being the best examples. It makes me wonder if either or both didn't wanna be in MN or since Guerin already committed to Fred & NoJo it was already too late. 

It's almost like the Wild were an aging pickup truck. There had been some work done to get decent tires, new ball-joints, brakes, tuned-up the AC for working through the Summer but then blew a tranny. There's a good core and some new pieces but just recently realized there's a new issue. Realizing the Wild are invested in vets that are like the grind'n gears difficult to replace with money allocated elsewhere. You can't just do a quick-easy swap for a new tranny cheap or easy and it makes you rethink the other parts that could have been prioritized lower. The decisions to get the tires and brakes first goof you up on the unforseen need. 

The Wild's inadequacy on defense or team toughness was less certain til last season when it became quite obvious like a blown tranny that there's a problem. The truck can still get some solid work done but bite the bullet and fix the biggest things that are broken, be smart about it cause you can't waste the money or afford any additional goof-ups.

The UFAs this year are like the U-Pull parts shop where you can affordable get back on the road. Just rip-off the band-aid, no fence-sitting...

 

[Wild4Ever]

Comparing Middleton to Merrill is ludicrous. Merrill is borderline worthless. They're both 6'3" but Merrill plays like he's 5'3". Middleton: 80 games played, 25 points, 161 blocks, and 148 hits. Merrill: 65 games played, 11 points, 57 blocks, and 37 hits.
If you're going to pick and choose, Middleton is serviceable at the right price and a blip on the radar while Merrill doesn't even show up on anyone's radar. Except this articles writer.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Protec said:

The Wild's inadequacy on defense or team toughness was less certain til last season when it became quite obvious like a blown tranny that there's a problem. The truck can still get some solid work done but bite the bullet and fix the biggest things that are broken, be smart about it cause you can't waste the money or afford any additional goof-ups.

In this scenario, I would call the placeholders the new tires, brakes and AC tune up. However, the new transmission and additional horsepower has to come from a new engine. I would consider this to be more of the Boldy/Rossi area and the rest of the prospects. Yet, some of these kids, for reasons unknown, have failed to bring the horsepower they were expected to (like Beckman). 

We've got more new parts in this engine coming in with Dino, Ogie and eventually Yurov. We've got a great new braking system about to be put in with The Wall, and we've got some fun new tech getting added with the puck moving defenders (though we've had a couple of implementation snafus along the way) that will add some turbocharging to the new engine. 

But, this was a concept build, so everything is new! It also takes time to make sure everything is calibrated properly, and will likely need some minor tweaks. I would think we are on track for this grand new engine to soon make it's debut, but right now, it's being dragged out in pieces for beta testing. 

Within the concept, did the architect miss a couple of needed pieces, you know, like maybe a stronger frame? Maybe that extra gear he wanted? This is where I see Tkachuk/McTavish/Lindstrom. They are a part of the new concept that was needed and somehow overlooked. So, we might have to go online and search for the part. 

[viper3119]

3 hours ago, Fezig said:

It could never be argued that Merrill is better than anyone. Never.

Addison?

[Wild4Ever]

21 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Merrill has reach but that's about it. 

Merrill's reach doesn't seem to help when he gets beat play after play after play.

[Wild4Ever]

19 minutes ago, viper3119 said:

Addison?

Failed small D experiment.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

46 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

In this scenario, I would call the placeholders the new tires, brakes and AC tune up. However, the new transmission and additional horsepower has to come from a new engine. I would consider this to be more of the Boldy/Rossi area and the rest of the prospects. Yet, some of these kids, for reasons unknown, have failed to bring the horsepower they were expected to (like Beckman). 

We've got more new parts in this engine coming in with Dino, Ogie and eventually Yurov. We've got a great new braking system about to be put in with The Wall, and we've got some fun new tech getting added with the puck moving defenders (though we've had a couple of implementation snafus along the way) that will add some turbocharging to the new engine. 

But, this was a concept build, so everything is new! It also takes time to make sure everything is calibrated properly, and will likely need some minor tweaks. I would think we are on track for this grand new engine to soon make it's debut, but right now, it's being dragged out in pieces for beta testing. 

Within the concept, did the architect miss a couple of needed pieces, you know, like maybe a stronger frame? Maybe that extra gear he wanted? This is where I see Tkachuk/McTavish/Lindstrom. They are a part of the new concept that was needed and somehow overlooked. So, we might have to go online and search for the part. 

What I see is us selling our brakes (Gus) and the new turbo that we haven't even spooled past 5PSI(Rossi). The frame may need some work and the pads needs to be swapped on the brakes but throwing out both is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Just as we finally start to see some return from the newer parts, we want to yank them out again because they aren't colored yellow and black like Guerin wanted. 

#MyPitchforkIsOut

[Citizen Strife]

Maybe it's because I'm legally blind and never worked on a car or even drove one well (because, well, yeah), but this car analogy is flying over my head.  It makes my brain hurt.

[Pewterschmidt]

3 hours ago, Protec said:

the U-Pull parts shop

That's what she said

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Wild4Ever said:

Failed small D experiment.

Addison playing Wing for SJS this season is the proof that he's not an NHL Dman.  Highly skilled hockey player, but missing "it" required to play NHL defense.

[Pewterschmidt]

46 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

What I see is us selling our brakes (Gus) and the new turbo that we haven't even spooled past 5PSI(Rossi). The frame may need some work and the pads needs to be swapped on the brakes but throwing out both is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Just as we finally start to see some return from the newer parts, we want to yank them out again because they aren't colored yellow and black like Guerin wanted. 

#MyPitchforkIsOut

We are well stocked with air bags (Nojo & Fred)

#triplepost

[mnfaninnc]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:11 AM, Wild4Ever said:

Merrill's reach doesn't seem to help when he gets beat play after play after play.

I don't think that's quite objective. He got beat a lot, especially when his partner, Goligoski, hung him out to dry, but there were times when he was beat cleanly and had inside position and got that stick in there just in time. 

The main issue with Merrill is he simply doesn't have enough speed to keep up anymore. He has to take another step back at the blue line, can't hold it as well, and cheat back. Decent #7D, but should only be playing as a fill in.