Brady Tkachuk-Target

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

29 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I wouldn't be trading Rossi out and I have no problems with his attitude, it's a plus. You said it above, he can't grow to 6'4". He also doesn't have that fiery personality. I would be trading Tkachuk in, and Rossi and Boldy would be the cost of doing business. I am not in the least bit disappointed with their play, but I also know they can get better. 

If you were looking at race horses, Rossi and Boldy would be in the race, but Tkachuk would be the winner.

I think we have a difference in philosophy for composition of a winning team. You want us to be a bigger bruiser style and I think our current roster is geared towards a fast, skilled style of play.

The reason I go with the skill and speed angle is because of the current make up. One Brady Tkachuk does not correct how physical the team is in general the same way one Foligno doesn't move the needle. Kap, Rossi, Zucc, Shaw and Spurg are all smaller guys. Not saying they are weak just short. The are all extremely mobile though. I just don't see a way to get rid of a quantity of these guys and overturn the current modus operandi in a single year. I also don't think we should. Hence my hate for our last draft going off board to take Stramel over Perrault. Our guys that will actually make it up are skill players as well. Heidt, Yurov, Dinov, all our upcoming prospects that look to have a good shot at making the N are goal scorers and playmakers, not power forwards.

If Billy wanted grit he needed to start building that years ago when he got here. Not in one draft 3 years too late. Frankly it is not the way Brackett drafts either and we saw what happened when Guerin decides to take the reins in the draft. 

This is why I strongly believe that Guerin has lost the plot. He demands power forward play from guys not geared towards that. His vision for the team is a bunch of bruisers but his moves do not correspond to that so what are we left with? A smaller team that has the skill and speed to compete but is directed to play heavier and wear ourselves down to the point we are injured and hurting if we do make playoffs. I don't see where Guerin's actions contribute to his vision anymore. Instead of trading out the older and smaller players he is looking to trade our younger guys, that are still developing, for more heavy handed vets that simply don't move the needle.

He can say all he wants that he wants Rossi just bigger but the truth is there is no one in their right mind that makes that 1 for 1 trade. If we do more than a 1 for 1 trade I see us decreasing in scoring to get bigger and that does not = wins for me. We are already one of the most penalized teams in the game with one of the worst PK's. How is that getting helped by Brady Tkachuk taking another 160PMs in the regular season? We are a closely watched team by the refs, do you think they let us off easier when we get bigger and dirtier? or do we become a goon squad that is constantly in the box with an utter inability to kill penalties?

[Protec]

58 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

What more did you want Rossi to prove? He is one of 2 20 goal scoring centers we have ever had at his age. He lost a year to illness and did the work to come back. He was asked to get bigger and stronger and he did exactly that. He has an amazing attitude. In my eyes ask the guy what you want to see from him and watch him get there. He can't grow any taller but if you want him at 205lbs, tell him. So far he has proven he will put in the work to achieve those goals set.

That's never been the point for me. It's always been that you can't become something you're not. I'm not saying he has to be the guy traded. Between Spurgeon, Rossi, Zuccarello, and Knudi however it's too many little nice guys, not big mean guys. 

It's nothing personal. I just believe after watching the Wild since it's inception, there's finally a superstar player here. The Wild's window and the things they do or don't do now are gonna matter. At some point the GM is gotta shit or get off the pot so to speak. Indecision will cost something as much as educated gambles. Fletcher cost the future ahead of him. Guerin hasn't done that yet it appears. The situation isn't gonna fix itself though. There's only a handful of NHL assets MN has to work with. Boldy and Rossi are at the top of that list while Spurgeon is quite expensive. Those are three players I've seen bring minimal big meanness. That's what I've observed and what I believe doesn't change much. You could ask Rossi to be more of a rat but why not just get one. You could ask Boldy to be a bruiser but why not just get one? Guerin effed up cause he signed guys to make the playoffs this year and now he's shot himself in the foot to utilize the nice looking UFA options. 

It's looking worse than ever now with the UFAs going to other teams who are improving and we're playing Nojo on the second line and waiting for draft picks to become the wave of the future as #97 mentally checks out of MN...

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

The reason I go with the skill and speed angle is because of the current make up. One Brady Tkachuk does not correct how physical the team is in general the same way one Foligno doesn't move the needle. Kap, Rossi, Zucc, Shaw and Spurg are all smaller guys. Not saying they are weak just short. The are all extremely mobile though. I just don't see a way to get rid of a quantity of these guys and overturn the current modus operandi in a single year. I also don't think we should. Hence my hate for our last draft going off board to take Stramel over Perrault. Our guys that will actually make it up are skill players as well. Heidt, Yurov, Dinov, all our upcoming prospects that look to have a good shot at making the N are goal scorers and playmakers, not power forwards.

Ok, let's say we simply stick with the draft and develop model. Where are we in 2 years? Are you one of the people worried about Kaprizov wanting to move on? 

I could be ok with this plan, and it is a good plan. I think we could put together 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line by continuing this way. We would have to out skill teams but with 3 scoring lines, it is possible. 

But, we're going to run into larger teams in the playoffs, likely in the conference finals too. Will a team like the one we drafted be able to make it out of the division? Conference? 

To me, the greatest deficiency I saw on the ice was lack of effort, not lack of grit. We're not missing the grit, we're missing the fire in the belly. Perhaps this roster can acquire that. Tkachuk has this in spades. 

My position is that he is a league leader in goals scored and he plays a tenacious game which should be infectious. He would lift up the effort level of the whole team. It's not just the fighting, or the hitting, it's that F-U that Shooter is looking for and it gets everyone involved. I would call him a complete skilled player as I see a heavy bodycheck as part of anyone's skill set. He's a guy who brings the fans out of their seats for more than one reason, and brings energy into a building. And, he's skilled!

I think we need the ability to play a bruising shift in a game. I'm not looking for a whole team of bruisers, but if you need "that" shift, he's one who can bring it. Ek is also. Foligno is also, and Ogie may be one who can. 

I also believe we have too many small guys. Not just short but small. For instance, Gaudreau is somewhere in the 185 area. Johansson is 203 but plays like 166 with that kind of balance. Bigger and stronger doesn't mean being a bully, but bigger and stronger can at least fend off larger players, can absorb punishment and not have to walk down the tunnel to regain composure. I like the skilled idea, but a good "team" has got to have every element available. When things get nasty, it needs to be responded to with nasty. 

Or, suppose you have one of those elite PPs that scares bigger teams into not punishing you? We currently don't have either.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Protec said:

I especially wanted Tuch not Foligno and on the old site I ragged on that hard when #17 got the big 3M dollar deal.

Of course, Foligno came after Tuch was let go and we had to jettison Pominville back to Buffalo because he refused to waive his NMC AND was enamored with the whiff and shank. 

That was a horrible thing that Fletcher did and completely screwed him in the cap. Both Haula and Tuch would have overperformed their contracts. Suter, Brodin and Dumba were the guys to block in that scenario. Why Dumba? At the time he vastly overperformed his contract. Why allow Spurgeon to be plucked? $5m reasons. We were going to lose a good player, we needed to limit it to 1. You keep the guys who are overperforming their contracts (and it could be argued that Spurgeon was one of those guys), but the bet was that McPhee would think he was too small to take. You also allow Staal to be plucked even though he overperformed betting that he was too old. What you don't let go are 2 overperforming cheap forwards that help you stay cap compliant.

That was my position prior to the expansion draft, and I still stick too it. That was a Fletcher disaster and firable offense.

[Protec]

3 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

How many players are we going to bring in for intangibles? Reaves, Maroon, Foligno, Deslaurier. At what point do our guys need to step up and own the room. How much have these guys helped?

I tend to focus on the tangible for this team because I have heard so much about this room. On paper it looks like a downgrade for a team that needs more secondary scoring. Our top line is one of the best in the league for both goals for and xGF and xGA. I see no need for an upgrade there. It is our depth scoring that needs reinforcement. I think moral will also improve once you jettison the passengers (Fred and Mojo). Hard to play with guys that aren't pulling on the rope.

This is hockey roster construction philosophy 101. What comes first chicken or egg?

If the Wild has one top line that can score it means only one line needs to be shut down. We've seen it in the playoffs even when MN had two lines. Insignificant depth.

The question is whether you put all the talent together or find balance so you can roll 4 lines. The consensus is 100% for balance and rolling 4 lines.

In that way you're right. Adding Maroon or Reaves is a band-aid on a bullet wound. Those guys aren't centers who produce. They don't add to the core. A player like Eichel wasn't possible or ideal for MN at the time coming from injury but Tkachuk or Chandler Stephenson would be two similar options at different price ranges and costs to acquire to fill that role. Stamkos is older and probably less a fit for MN without money, but perhaps M. Necas?

It took Ek 7-8 years to become a 1C. If Rossi took half that long it's still too long to do lots of good if we could even agree he's the same caliber as one of the proven guys I referred to. 

We'll find out though. As of right now the Wild are small, overpaying for certain replaceable players and facing penalties. If they can't rearrange things and find more value, they're gonna be in trouble. If Spurgeon has a Dumba season, NoJo stays healthy and plays for MN atball, and Rossi doesn't improve his productivity by 30% or more, the Wild will have nobody of any value to trade anymore and #97 will have watched as the Wild leadership just crossed their fingers and hoped every single player magically elevates to unseen levels. At that point if it plays out that way, you'd be left with a talented group of young guys no closer to a Cup than before. The Wild have just one Swiss Army knife guy, Ek. Cup winning teams have a handful of players who do multiple things well. MN has a bunch of different guys who do one or two things well, put together. Boldy's a golfer, Faber isn't mean, Rossi isn't big or mean. Zucchi is an offense and distribution guy, Spurge is a smart defender, and Moose can roam around snorting and fussing with long legs and good marketing videos but none of them do all that's needed. 

Non elite players, coach, and GM currently. Decent but not beating the heavy-hitters in the West on their current path. This whole debate is kinda silly anyway cause nobody wants to trade a tough center who can score for the marginally good MN guys. Ottawa would perhaps trade B.Tkachuk but for a few Wild players and picks if Boldy or a 1st was included but 25% of teams didn't select Rossi in the first place. The others already near the top have a Cup to win so the likelihood of trading and getting a top guy without overpaying is slim. 

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Protec said:

Ottawa would perhaps trade B.Tkachuk but for a few Wild players and picks if Boldy or a 1st was included but 25% of teams didn't select Rossi in the first place. The others already near the top have a Cup to win so the likelihood of trading and getting a top guy without overpaying is slim. 

On paper, I thought I was overpaying. 

[RedLake]

No high profile player will sign in Minnesota! Small Market, and state taxes keep them away. Along with Billy G signing 5th line players to NTC.