Article: Anson Carter Is Right About the Wild's Lack Of Depth

[raithis]

Re:  Wasting Kaprizov's prime.  The reason he isn't surrounded more is the aftershocks of Fletcher.  Fenton, to his credit, at least put some prospects in the pool that we could start with.  I can't credit him for much more, but it gave us something to build off of.  Guerin has had to pick up the pieces and lay a new foundation.  None of that is going to happen overnight.  It's all timed to start coming to fruition after the bulk of the dead cap goes away.  There wasn't much choice to do it any other way.

Re:  20 years and still doing the same thing.  The thing is that we aren't doing the same thing.  The vets that are signed ARE the depth.  The prospects are meant to leapfrog them.  And if we have too many prospects, maybe we package a few for that pivotal piece that takes us forward to a team that can go deep in the playoffs - I'm just hoping that player is in their prime or just entering it.  I do not want a repeat of Fletcher in that regard.  We don't need additional veteran depth.  I get that people are impatient.  I am too.  But growing through the draft with a significant prospect pool is something we haven't done much of before Guerin as many of those prospects that could have made a lasting difference for the team were traded for immediate, short-lived fixes that sacrificed our future (the present and last few years) for little gain.  So this isn't the same.  Maybe it will turn into the same thing, but it's entirely incorrect to say that right now.

Re:  Tanking and draft picks.  You can't point to a few examples of saying a team tanked and they got x and consider that evidence that every team can do that.  It usually takes a number of successful high picks to do that quickly.  If it worked so well, we'd see all the perennially bad teams in the league be playoff teams every few years.  That doesn't happen.  A team is better off identifying, developing, re-assessing, and moving players as necessary to create a solid, full team that can compete.

In summary, we as fans are collectively too impatient to be bad for long enough that we get a ton of high picks.  The same people who frequently say we need to re-build like Chicago are the same ones who complain we are wasting Kaprizov's prime.

Yes, we've had hope before.  Yes, we don't want to get fooled again.  However, this isn't the same path and I feel fairly strongly that this is what we didn't do in the past that we really needed to do.  Disagree if you want, but we will win a playoff series before Chicago. Hell, we'll win two before they make the playoffs.  It will likely be a couple years yet, but I feel like the future is brighter and more solid than a lot of people make it out to be.

[B1GKappa97]

6 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Honest question: why is Carter being vilified for calling out Wild’s lack of depth?

In '21-'22? We didn't have a lack of depth. 

We had two scoring lines because we still had Fiala who was taking off once Boldy got to the NHL, we had the GREEF line, and the 4th line was Sturm and the Dewey twins with Shaw available as the 13th forward, plus Bjugstadt. 

It was considerably deeper then than it currently is now. Which isn't really a surprise considering we had an extra $10M or so in cap space to use to build up the roster at that point. 

Carter was just plain wrong and didn't like getting called out for it so he played the race card when that had nothing to do with it. 

[B1GKappa97]

4 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

 He's not wrong now. But he's still a J/A for pulling the race card on Russo back then saying "stay on code" and "sounds all white to me".

Right? Worst part is he's the one who called out Russo first and then he gets upset that Russo responds, and accurately points out Carter was putting too much weight on the Blues game, and goes nuclear over it a week later by heavily suggesting it was race related?

Just stupid. 

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/wild/anson-carter-goes-at-michael-russo-on-national-tv-russo-responds

Edited April 5 by B1GKappa97

[joebou15]

8 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Yeah I remember well the broadcast where Anson showed his ass.

Last year's Anson Carter "incident" was a class action embarrassment for Wild fans. 

You should never feel obligated to stick up for the beat writer. He's a big boy and can handle himself. Not to mention with one retweet, and you'll have 100's of hockey dude-bros in your mentions calling you every name in the book for having the audacity to disagree with Michael Russo.

The Anson Carter thing was embarrassing for everyone and highly racist at its worst.

The Wild didn't have the depth then, and don't have it now. It should get better. Frankly, Guerin has to get out of his own way to create that depth. You can't sign 4th line or 3rd pairing guys off the scrap heap, then double down with a multi-year extension when there is absolutely no reason to do it.

[Need4speed99]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:40 PM, Citizen Strife said:

Also, for all the people thinking, "Hey, all we need is some mythical high pick to solve our depth issues," here's a name never to forget.

#4 pick: Benoit Pouliot

Sorry, but Top 5 picks don't always end up winners.

 

Your chances are much higher than late round 1sts.... 

[Need4speed99]

Raithis; they are actually doing the same thing...

And the vets being depth pieces that the prospects leapfrog? Then why are the prospects constantly put behind them on lines and we see the youngsters either a healthy scratch or up and down between the clubs while the vets play... also the contracts that is being given to the vets, alot that NO other team would come close to offering.

If guerin was different why aren't we seeing a new strategy and the youth play? 

[MacGyver]

4 hours ago, joebou15 said:

Last year's Anson Carter "incident" was a class action embarrassment for Wild fans. 

You should never feel obligated to stick up for the beat writer. He's a big boy and can handle himself. Not to mention with one retweet, and you'll have 100's of hockey dude-bros in your mentions calling you every name in the book for having the audacity to disagree with Michael Russo.

The Anson Carter thing was embarrassing for everyone and highly racist at its worst.

The Wild didn't have the depth then, and don't have it now. It should get better. Frankly, Guerin has to get out of his own way to create that depth. You can't sign 4th line or 3rd pairing guys off the scrap heap, then double down with a multi-year extension when there is absolutely no reason to do it.

Um I think you miss the point although you allude to it. Nothing to do with Russo or sticking up for him I personally don't care for him much of the time it could have been anybody. Whether Carter was right or wrong about the Wilds depth then or now...ah never mind...

[mnfaninnc]

14 hours ago, greg said:

WILD FANS HAVE BEEN WAITING for 20 years.  How much longer do we have to wait to see a consistent championship caliber team? 

And this is the thing, patience is wearing thin. However, to blame Shooter for the trading away of premium draft picks in the teens isn't right either. He's had about 4 years. It usually takes 5 years for draft picks to mature. 

When he took this team over, the cupboards were pretty empty and we had traded away our younger core. That's not on him, and the change means you have to wait longer. 

I get it, 20 years is a long time. But you got playoffs out of the majority of those years. Just not much success in those series. And, if the competitive retool/reload doesn't work, there will be more waiting. It does look better, though, than Ottawa and Buffalo. If you want to feel pain, look at how they've done. AZ too.

[mnfaninnc]

39 minutes ago, Need4speed99 said:

Raithis; they are actually doing the same thing...

And the vets being depth pieces that the prospects leapfrog? Then why are the prospects constantly put behind them on lines and we see the youngsters either a healthy scratch or up and down between the clubs while the vets play... also the contracts that is being given to the vets, alot that NO other team would come close to offering.

If guerin was different why aren't we seeing a new strategy and the youth play? 

I disagree with N4S99 and agree with Raithis. There is a difference. 

1. Guerin has held on to his top 2 picks in the draft AND has picked up more.
2. Guerin hasn't brought the youngsters up too quickly. Fletcher did.
3. Guerin is using depth draft picks and guys he wasn't signing anyway to get playoff rentals.
4. Guerin has pretty full cupboards and isn't selling them off for rentals.

Just these 4 things make it different. And, it will probably give us better results. But, we have to wait for that to happen as the development time on these guys is 5 years before playing a regular role in the N.

[mnfaninnc]

44 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Um I think you miss the point although you allude to it. Nothing to do with Russo or sticking up for him I personally don't care for him much of the time it could have been anybody. Whether Carter was right or wrong about the Wilds depth then or now...ah never mind...

I never got into this fight, but I can tell you that the majority of national "insiders" have really no clue about individual teams, especially non-large market teams. I have little respect for any of their opinions. They are generally east coast biased, and spend about 10 minutes of research time on 2/3rds of the league. Your just lucky they can spell the player's names right!

[mnfaninnc]

Why wouldn't we have enough depth? I suppose what they're getting at is proven depth. Well, buyouts are one reason, but not the main reason. Under ,Fletcher, 1 key ingredient was missing and it wasn't his fault: The draft black hole of the mid to late '00s. We needed those guys to fill in and they simply weren't there. 

Fast forward a decade and you have a similar thing, except instead of just plain whiffing, Fletcher traded them out. 2 were 1sts, too many to count were 2nds. But the effect was the same, no premium picks panned out. That is what is haunting us today. That great '15 draft was followed up by, well, Fenton disassembling the younger kids. And for what? Fiala and the scrubs. 

I wouldn't consider Lettieri and Lucchini depth. We've got very little ready in Iowa, we're $15m short of cap space so any injuries to our better players will be magnified where only talented ELC players could really make a difference. 

It will get better the more these guys mature. But many don't want to let that happen. They try to speed up the timelines, and when there are setbacks, they're ready to throw the player in the trash. We've got a nice pipeline going right now, let's keep it going and we'll get the fruits from it later. Kaprizov won't be done at 30. 

[MacGyver]

17 hours ago, Protec said:

Wild just signed a new goalie from Czech. Samuel Hlavaj to a two-year, entry-level contract starting with the 2024-25 season.

I think I'm getting prospect fatigue. 🫠 Yeah Gus is looking more and more like Dubnyk 2.0 it might be worth seeing what we can get for him. I wonder if BG got any inquiries at the trade dead line? That would have been the time to move him. But we were still in the we can win the Cup mode then. His value has probably gone down since. Can't slow walk Wallstedt forever.  

[mnfaninnc]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:15 AM, MacGyver said:

Can't slow walk Wallstedt forever.  

Since he's called up now for the final 6 games, and Iowa isn't going to make the postseason either, perhaps we'll see where his game is at. 

It may take him a little time to get used to NHL shooters. I thought he played well against Dallas through the first couple of periods before the roof caved in. I do believe he is ready for the call up, and to be back up next season. The real question is whether Goose is ready to take on a #1 role, one he failed at this season. I have no problems with playing the goalies every other game either. 

What is very noticeable is when Fleury was relied on to win a big game, he really couldn't down the stretch. His reflexes seem to be going a little, and that is a big part of his game. With Fleury's size, if his reflexes slow just a smidgeon, he's toast. His whole game is based upon cat like quickness. 

His flexibility still appears to be there, but there's more to it than that. Guerin's got to realize this before extending him a contract, and should he do that, no contract can go above 1 year. On another point, I'd be ok if Goose-The Wall didn't work out and we signed Fleury for 1/2 a season, and sent The Wall down. Or if Goose's game doesn't rebound and we do have to trade him out and run with The Wall and someone else.

[raithis]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:53 PM, Need4speed99 said:

Raithis; they are actually doing the same thing...

And the vets being depth pieces that the prospects leapfrog? Then why are the prospects constantly put behind them on lines and we see the youngsters either a healthy scratch or up and down between the clubs while the vets play... also the contracts that is being given to the vets, alot that NO other team would come close to offering.

If guerin was different why aren't we seeing a new strategy and the youth play? 

Because the youth has yet to overtake the vets.  In the last few years of those contracts, the youth will be higher up the depth chart, and the vets will be playing 3rd-4th line.  They are placeholders.  Movement down the depth chart hasn't happened yet because the youth is not ready.  People keep wanting the kids to be put in the NHL like Buffalo or Montreal, but they seem to think they are going to get different results than Buffalo or Montreal.  They need to develop first.

Also, most teams have mid-tier vets under contacts, frequently also with clauses.  The Wild aren't even the worst offenders of this.  I don't see the big deal unless more vets are added.  Where we are at right now makes sense.

[Up North Guy]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:48 PM, mnfaninnc said:

Since he's called up now for the final 6 games, and Iowa isn't going to make the postseason either, perhaps we'll see where his game is at. 

It may take him a little time to get used to NHL shooters. I thought he played well against Dallas through the first couple of periods before the roof caved in. I do believe he is ready for the call up, and to be back up next season. The real question is whether Goose is ready to take on a #1 role, one he failed at this season. I have no problems with playing the goalies every other game either. 

What is very noticeable is when Fleury was relied on to win a big game, he really couldn't down the stretch. His reflexes seem to be going a little, and that is a big part of his game. With Fleury's size, if his reflexes slow just a smidgeon, he's toast. His whole game is based upon cat like quickness. 

His flexibility still appears to be there, but there's more to it than that. Guerin's got to realize this before extending him a contract, and should he do that, no contract can go above 1 year. On another point, I'd be ok if Goose-The Wall didn't work out and we signed Fleury for 1/2 a season, and sent The Wall down. Or if Goose's game doesn't rebound and we do have to trade him out and run with The Wall and someone else.

Historically goalies have been big time head cases. They need different coaching than skaters (not just on technique). The Wall got that fate the Dallas game, went back to Iowa, and read the games the way he needed to. Gus finally IMO got the coaching he needed. The two got very different coaching based on their needs. Now Gus is playing better also. I like Flower but just don't see him being able to carry a #1 load. If Gus finishes strong and Flower wants to come back, ok for one year only.