Article: The Minnesota Wild Have Already Blown Their Post-Parise/Suter Windfall

[Tony Abbott]

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[Burnt Toast]

What I’m talking away from your article is the extensions taken as a whole don’t make a lot of sense, especially when considering the Wild’s best SC window. (Projected) From my point of view following the team, and how other teams have built, I agree with your assessment. I keep hoping you’re, I’m, wrong. It’s going to take a few years to see if a couple of “casuals” somehow knew more than a combined NHL organizational brain trust. 

[Will D. Ness]

I don't think any of these guys cannot be traded.  I'm not sure of the exact restrictions but it isn't really fair to say that the cap is "tied up".  

The point isn't that we won't have cap space but rather that BG has made it more difficult to make cap space, and hopefully these decisions have been tactical and not just frivolous.

I will be pissed if we do not swing for the fences via trade or FA for a 1C when the time is right.

[Pewterschmidt]

I think Guerin looked at Iowa and determined few (none) of those turnips will evolve into bottom six NHL'rs, so he'll lock in the apathetic old core to man the bottom six over next 3-4 yrs while the prospect cavalry pushes them down the lineups (sooner rather than later please).  Guerin's alternative was to fill out the bottom six with a revolving collection of Tyson Jost's and that possibility didn't sit well with him.  I tend to agree.

Edited March 12 by Pewterschmidt

[Citizen Strife]

Everything hinges on the new prospects coming in and being as good as anyone they'd get on the free agent market, pushing down the "bad apples" to the 3rd or 4th line roles or out the door (which was probably the plan all along).  If they aren't, that says more about the prospect choices and development, rather than giving money to people like Zuccarello playing PPG quality into his mid-30s.

But no: everyone signed is a waste of time.  Forgive me if seeing Faber and Rossi being 2nd and 3rd in rookie points doesn't exactly point me to wanting to jump off a cliff and scream just yet.  Boldy and Ek spent this year proving to be great 1st line guys too.  If the new defenseman don't join Faber in quality new additions, sure.  That could be problematic.  Then again, the Bogo/Chisholm tandem have done more than Addison gave us, outside of PP assists.

It's not all bad, it's not going to be all bad, and I personally think Abbott needs to relax just a bit on the doom and gloom.  He's reminding me of Russo and LaPanta last week.  Russo cried foul for minutes, while LaPanta was trying to make the point that if most of the new guys do what they need to, these extensions will just be people pushed down the roster or let go, rather than blocking people.  If the players aren't good enough to beat out what they re-signed, they aren't good enough, and that's on the players.  It's a low enough bar.

 

[Dean]

Great article. Spot on. It’s exactly what worries me. This teams window opens and shuts due to mismanagement of cap . IMO the extended  haven’t done anything in playoffs for us . Why in two years would they be the foundation for a Stanley cup?  Dallas has a core of vets and have won rounds. They seamlessly bring in there prospects. We are asking our prospects to come in and carry most of the vets. 
    Another thing this article points out is due to no flexibility how are they going to bring in size if they aren’t drafting it? Then you’re waiting 5 years.  I don’t like the new look non contact wild. Hitting is part of hockey . They can’t win a cup without physical play . No one on wild hits besides moose. That’s not going to win anything. The wild will get pulverized every playoffs  or they loose there mind. . I’m not talking about fighting. I’m talking about wearing teams down so they make mistakes. It’s like we’re to entitled and good to have to hit. . Or it’s Billy’s idea of new nhl. However hitting still wins cups. . So where do these playoffs type players come from? 
     I thought Vegas was crazy with roster management in the past. I thought they were pissing away future with big swings. However they’ve won a cup. Still have a great roster and added hertl, Hannifin , and Mantha I believe. Plus they still have high picks in future.  I’m starting to think they broke the mold in building. They deal in proven players over development. Let other teams develop and then you buy them to fit what you need now. . I’m sure someday this will catch up to them like Pittsburgh but after how many cups?  I’d take that. 

[Sviginak]

32 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Everything hinges on the new prospects coming in and being as good as anyone they'd get on the free agent market, pushing down the "bad apples" to the 3rd or 4th line roles or out the door (which was probably the plan all along).  If they aren't, that says more about the prospect choices and development, rather than giving money to people like Zuccarello playing PPG quality into his mid-30s.

But no: everyone signed is a waste of time.  Forgive me if seeing Faber and Rossi being 2nd and 3rd in rookie points doesn't exactly point me to wanting to jump off a cliff and scream just yet.  Boldy and Ek spent this year proving to be great 1st line guys too.  If the new defenseman don't join Faber in quality new additions, sure.  That could be problematic.  Then again, the Bogo/Chisholm tandem have done more than Addison gave us, outside of PP assists.

It's not all bad, it's not going to be all bad, and I personally think Abbott needs to relax just a bit on the doom and gloom.  He's reminding me of Russo and LaPanta last week.  Russo cried foul for minutes, while LaPanta was trying to make the point that if most of the new guys do what they need to, these extensions will just be people pushed down the roster or let go, rather than blocking people.  If the players aren't good enough to beat out what they re-signed, they aren't good enough, and that's on the players.  It's a low enough bar.

 

I think Tony might have a bad tooth….. Better see the Dentist and get it over with.

[Citizen Strife]

Note: Guerin's method favors at most 1-2 forward and defenseman prospects at a time, rather than 3-4. Maybe it is a razor thin margin for error, but it isn't as impenetrable as it seems.  The prospects just have to be lights out options.  If the Beckman, Walkers, or Addisons don't feel right, Guerin isn't going to spend roster spots letting them "figure it out."

Edited March 12 by Citizen Strife

[Protec]

I would more easily associate "windfall" with teams like Vegas, NY, or Chicago. 

I would consider MN more like escaping captivity. 

Foligno, Hartman, and Zuccarello have performed just as we expected. Nobody else was there to displace them.

Fred and NoJo are both entitled to a bounceback year for me at least. Each guy looked the part when they got signed. Okay with me. After next season, that's gonna have to be re-evaluated.

Guerin needed to be making small gains and keeping flexibility for when the penalties end. I don't think he's painted himself into a corner on that.

[MrCheatachu]

3 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Note: Guerin's method favors at most 1-2 forward and defenseman prospects at a time, rather than 3-4. Maybe it is a razor thin margin for error, but it isn't as impenetrable as it seems.  The prospects just have to be lights out options.  If the Beckman, Walkers, or Addisons don't feel right, Guerin isn't going to spend roster spots letting them "figure it out."

In 41 games with the sharks, Addison has 1g, 9a (5 of which came on PP) and is -20 playing 17:14 a night.  Addison got a pretty long cup of coffee with the big club, and even got an off-season to get his crap together.

I get that the Sharks are not a good hockey team right now, but moving on from Addison to Bogosian seems to have made this team better.  Maybe I'm missing out on some advanced analytics to show that Addison is actually a better player than Makar, but I don't think Addison helps the point you're trying to make.

[Citizen Strife]

I'm in favor of Bogo over Addison and stated that in my first post, if that's what you're asking.

Edited March 12 by Citizen Strife

[MrCheatachu]

2 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

I'm in favor of Bogo over Addison and stated that in my first post, if that's what you're asking.

Not specifically, I was just arguing that Addison had a very long leash with a very long cup of coffee with the big club to 'figure it out'

Maybe it's because Addison was a GuerinGuy® from his time in PIT, but he was given more than a fair shake, especially when you compare him to some of the other guys on that list.

[Citizen Strife]

I see.  That makes more sense now.

[Burnt Toast]

59 minutes ago, Dean said:

Vegas

Good point. At the SC podium VGK players were raving about the addition of their new star 1C JE. The Wild are looking at a 10-12$M 4th line in 3 years. I actually like the players they resigned but I liked the Deweys too. I’m not saying there’s not a plan I’m saying I can’t see it nor have I historically seen it. Vegas had strong, big, physical players sprinkled throughout their lineup which you alluded to. I think that’s a must, therefore I think the Stramel pick was an ok situational choice.

[Dean]

When I say we haven’t drafted size. I mean in this crop of franchise changing prospects. Stramel may be one hell of a steal or a total bust. Hes obviously got the strength but needs the skill and hockey iq to develop. By that time we’re into our playoff window. He’s not  getting us into it. My point is the d core we drafted years ago is small. The wingers and centers are all small . Starting to draft size now is good but past our window. So then you need to add some size via free agency . However those are extensions make that difficult. You’ll have to move out salary to bring in salary in future. Not so easy with the clauses. 
   As far as trading extended players with nmc and no trade lists is pretty impossible. Definitely impossible to get full value for them. A good agent can make a 15 no trade list basically a no move . So then Billy has to go ask his friends to wave clause. What has Billy done to prove he has the nuts to do that . Even if he did get someone to wave the other teams know that and your value just tanked . Ala tarasenco to Florida from Ottawa. Got nothing basically because vlad chose his destination.
    I think for wild to be successful in competitive rebuild, it comes  down to gm making big swings.. They have to figure out how to buy cap space . Is Billy willing to trade prospects and picks to get us a surrounding cast. I don’t see how he does with his cap management skills. 

[greg]

All I know is the Wild have the 4th oldest team in the NHL and are not going to make the playoffs.  Not a real good combination.  But at least they sell out every game!

[DHockey]

I think this is a tad pessimistic.  The Wild don't really have to sign anyone to big money deals except Faber 2025\26 ( and maybe Chisholm) until the 2026\27 season and that is exactly when the NMC's come off for the older players they signed. If they are bad enough that they can't be traded it might hurt, but odds are they can find a team willing to grab them for that money.  Also the cap should go up not stay stagnant and that will help with the raises to Kaprisov and Faber.  Also Spurgeon comes off the books after 2026\27 so that should offset Fabers contract as well.  If they need some extra money earlier than that they could do a buyout with Spurg as well.

I think Billy thought this through and these signings we all are complaining about aren't "really" in the way.  There is room for young players if they perform and the older guys will be slowly moved out over time. Maybe 25/26 is slightly impacted by the way Billy structured everything, but will have to wait and see. I think we all would liked more flexibility by not having to deal with the NMC's, but it looks like that is what it took for those players to not walk and sign for less.

 

[Willy the poor boy]

4 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

I keep hoping you’re, I’m, wrong. It’s going to take a few years to see if a couple of “casuals” somehow knew more than a combined NHL organizational brain trust. 

It wouldn't be the first time.

[FredJohnson]

4 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

if most of the new guys do what they need to, these extensions will just be people pushed down the roster or let go

This^^^ relax everyone.

[FredJohnson]

Markedly different article from Sean's. 😬

[Dean]

Where would this team be if they had got Jack Eichel ? Say the Rossi, Öhgren ,stramel pick for him.  I’d do that. I  get the money part  was difficult but that never stops Vegas. 
    Or what if instead of extending foligno , they used that for Ryan o’reilly in free agency this past year? Maroon did his job better for what you’re paying moose , plus getting a legit center. 
    What if we made different cap decisions with goose and fred. Maybe we  could have added some size or used the cap space to acquire picks. 
     What if we had traded Gus instead of extending him. Especially after his lights out season . We could have got talbot as backup till the kid is ready  and had money to play with.  
    I think creative cap decisions is needed to compete and rebuild at same time. Especially during major buyouts. Not handcuffing yourself for no reason . Adding marat and spurg  isn’t going to get you past the heavy central or win any 7 game series . Bill has to get creative or waste a decade. Like the Vikings competitive rebuild went. 

[Protec]

EDM, ANA, NJ, LA, SJS, NYR, BUF, CHI, DET, OTT, CBJ, ARI, MTL, TOR, and the list goes on, all teams that went full rebuild pretty much. None are successful winning the Cup since. Many aren't even close. 

The Wild aren't in that bad of a spot. 

[Patrick]

Yikes. Tony's gotta take a break for a bit and go for a walk in the sunshine. None of those guys have NMC towards the ends of the deals if I remember correctly. There is LOTS of room for BG to make things happen.

[Tony Abbott]

8 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I don't think any of these guys cannot be traded.  I'm not sure of the exact restrictions but it isn't really fair to say that the cap is "tied up".  

The point isn't that we won't have cap space but rather that BG has made it more difficult to make cap space, and hopefully these decisions have been tactical and not just frivolous.

I will be pissed if we do not swing for the fences via trade or FA for a 1C when the time is right.

Full no-move clauses for Hartman, Zuccarello, Foligno. 12 million-plus where the team has absolutely no say over whether they can move. What would you rather have? $12 million to throw around, or those three guys two years later into their 30s?

[Tony Abbott]

8 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Everything hinges on the new prospects coming in and being as good as anyone they'd get on the free agent market, pushing down the "bad apples" to the 3rd or 4th line roles or out the door (which was probably the plan all along).  If they aren't, that says more about the prospect choices and development, rather than giving money to people like Zuccarello playing PPG quality into his mid-30s.

But no: everyone signed is a waste of time.  Forgive me if seeing Faber and Rossi being 2nd and 3rd in rookie points doesn't exactly point me to wanting to jump off a cliff and scream just yet.  Boldy and Ek spent this year proving to be great 1st line guys too.  If the new defenseman don't join Faber in quality new additions, sure.  That could be problematic.  Then again, the Bogo/Chisholm tandem have done more than Addison gave us, outside of PP assists.

It's not all bad, it's not going to be all bad, and I personally think Abbott needs to relax just a bit on the doom and gloom.  He's reminding me of Russo and LaPanta last week.  Russo cried foul for minutes, while LaPanta was trying to make the point that if most of the new guys do what they need to, these extensions will just be people pushed down the roster or let go, rather than blocking people.  If the players aren't good enough to beat out what they re-signed, they aren't good enough, and that's on the players.  It's a low enough bar.

 

First of all, don't even get me started on how much Lapanta was caping for these signings. 

Second, this isn't even about the prospects. These extensions might block prospects (how many years was it clear Eriksson Ek was the best center before he got the opportunity?), but I'm talking about the Wild making it nearly impossible to get an impact player to supplement this core. These extensions are blocking the opportunity to add a premier center or defenseman as much as they're blocking any prospects.