Article: How Do the Wild Clean Up the Mess They've Created?

[Tom Schreier]

View full article

[CALWildfan]

Although it is reality I'm tired of hearing and being reminded of the buy outs.  We got rid of 2 cancers in the locker room and know full well what the imp[acts are and would be.   It's time to stop the excuse of "dead cap money" and play with the hand we are dealt.  Find those young players that can make a difference....  look at  other sports, look at Ivan Pace for the Vikings or Adam Thielen 2 UNDRAFTED players that achieved greatness through hard work and a salary cap.  

[Luke Sims]

Is this Purgatory?

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

It irks me that our owner and management can't seem to see the forest for the trees. We had every excuse to take a step back and really have something solid moving into a time without cap hits. To give some experience to the up and coming youth, get younger and collect picks using the cap space we did have instead of loading up for a run. With Judd here, we should not have stocked the cupboards with our excess cap space last year and instead compiled picks by playing banker for other deals. Every single pickup that exhausted our salary cap last year was a dead end. Reaves, Kilngberg, Johansson, Sundquist and Nyquist really didn't move the needle past the reg season. Nyquist would have been excellent to retain but was moved due the cap constraints.

Now, this season we double down on the core prematurely and get bit. It leaves us looking in worse shape for the time when the cap its come off. We are handcuffed to Gaudreau and Foligno for the foreseeable future and still waiting ever so patiently to offload the boat anchors that are Merrill and Goli. 

The bright spots of this season are some young folks are getting play time. Rossi, Faber and Hunt have all had significant time with the club and are all developing. Some better than we could have ever hoped. 

So far, the moves in free agency have looked good. A couple low cost defensemen to shore up our bleeding blue line without the captain. Things are looking brighter with Dino and Yurov possibly coming over his year or next and our youngest prospects getting a taste for professional hockey down in Iowa.

Stay the course Guerin. No big splashes in an attempt to bring us in contention! Maybe even play banker with that IR money and load up the picks this year. Take some physical D prospects if you can and we will be fine taking a high pick.

[MrCheatachu]

I think we need to grab Billy by the scruff of his neck, and rub his face in this season and yell 'NO! NO! BAD! NO!' until he stops shitting all over the place.

[Eddy]

After reading this article it’s hard to believe that you couldn’t seem anywhere to mention. The Wild have one of the best prospect pools in the league, Marco Rossi is definitely looking like a top 6 player/#2 center, and Guerin somehow traded Fiala for equal value. I frankly would love someone to explain how there isn’t room for prospects to come up after this season 2 forward positions are up for grabs, 2 defenders, and a goalie🤷‍♂️. Are we really thinking we have that many prospects that just need to jump right in cause wow the Wild just won the lottery!! I’m all good with someone changing my mind but harping on 1 or 2 signings you just don’t like and never looking at the big picture to me doesn’t make sense… has BG been the best Gm in the league 🤷‍♂️, has he been the worst🤷‍♂️, I will tell you he took a team with a 💩 prospect pool and salary cap hell into the playoffs multiple years straight. While navigating a bad hand for the cap and building on of the top prospect pools so take that for what it’s worth but I’d like to see where this team goes and what we are fully capable of in 2 years +. 

[cloddish]

"Mr. Leipold’s best quality as an owner is his commitment to winning."

At this point, this attribute is becoming Leipold's worst quality as an owner. He's become so committed to selling out every night and "winning" that he forgot how to properly build a team.

"Mr. Leipold handed Guerin a vintage Pontiac Firebird that was having trouble getting up to speed on the freeway."

Perhaps Mr. Leipold needs to learn about "sunken cost fallacy" as it applies to his hockey team.

"Experts, or anyone who regularly watches the team, will tell you that the engine has some good components but that Guerin needed to replace some old parts."

More like, I think experts will tell you that Guerin and Leipold are trying ham-fist a vintage Pontiac Firebird into a Formula One race and still think it is competitive doing so.

Edited February 5 by cloddish

[Burnt Toast]

My best guess is that most of the extensions were driven in part by BG’s loyalty to players who had played hard the last few years. The personal relationship elements within an organization are definitely in the mix when it comes to decision making. From an outsiders’ view I believe winning is important to management too. In the short term, other than some new players showing promise, even Wild management is probably going say that this season was not a success. 

[Lovehockey]

47 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

It irks me that our owner and management can't seem to see the forest for the trees. We had every excuse to take a step back and really have something solid moving into a time without cap hits. To give some experience to the up and coming youth, get younger and collect picks using the cap space we did have instead of loading up for a run. With Judd here, we should not have stocked the cupboards with our excess cap space last year and instead compiled picks by playing banker for other deals. Every single pickup that exhausted our salary cap last year was a dead end. Reaves, Kilngberg, Johansson, Sundquist and Nyquist really didn't move the needle past the reg season. Nyquist would have been excellent to retain but was moved due the cap constraints.

Now, this season we double down on the core prematurely and get bit. It leaves us looking in worse shape for the time when the cap its come off. We are handcuffed to Gaudreau and Foligno for the foreseeable future and still waiting ever so patiently to offload the boat anchors that are Merrill and Goli. 

The bright spots of this season are some young folks are getting play time. Rossi, Faber and Hunt have all had significant time with the club and are all developing. Some better than we could have ever hoped. 

So far, the moves in free agency have looked good. A couple low cost defensemen to shore up our bleeding blue line without the captain. Things are looking brighter with Dino and Yurov possibly coming over his year or next and our youngest prospects getting a taste for professional hockey down in Iowa.

Stay the course Guerin. No big splashes in an attempt to bring us in contention! Maybe even play banker with that IR money and load up the picks this year. Take some physical D prospects if you can and we will be fine taking a high pick.

 

47 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

It irks me that our owner and management can't seem to see the forest for the trees. We had every excuse to take a step back and really have something solid moving into a time without cap hits. To give some experience to the up and coming youth, get younger and collect picks using the cap space we did have instead of loading up for a run. With Judd here, we should not have stocked the cupboards with our excess cap space last year and instead compiled picks by playing banker for other deals. Every single pickup that exhausted our salary cap last year was a dead end. Reaves, Kilngberg, Johansson, Sundquist and Nyquist really didn't move the needle past the reg season. Nyquist would have been excellent to retain but was moved due the cap constraints.

Now, this season we double down on the core prematurely and get bit. It leaves us looking in worse shape for the time when the cap its come off. We are handcuffed to Gaudreau and Foligno for the foreseeable future and still waiting ever so patiently to offload the boat anchors that are Merrill and Goli. 

The bright spots of this season are some young folks are getting play time. Rossi, Faber and Hunt have all had significant time with the club and are all developing. Some better than we could have ever hoped. 

So far, the moves in free agency have looked good. A couple low cost defensemen to shore up our bleeding blue line without the captain. Things are looking brighter with Dino and Yurov possibly coming over his year or next and our youngest prospects getting a taste for professional hockey down in Iowa.

Stay the course Guerin. No big splashes in an attempt to bring us in contention! Maybe even play banker with that IR money and load up the picks this year. Take some physical D prospects if you can and we will be fine taking a high pick.

 

[Lovehockey]

The main problem is - the prospects need to play. And for the next year as an example Wild will have only 3 spots available for forwards if they decide not sign anyone from the fourth line. And this is what article is indicating - over commitment to average veteran players, holding development of the young players (Rossi) 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Quote

Parise is expected to play on the second line with center Ryan Johansen and forward Artturi Lehkonen when he makes his debut at the New York Rangers on Monday (7 p.m. ET; MSG, ALT). It is the first game of a season-long six-game road trip for the Avalanche.

I was a little surprised to read 2nd line for Parise, but they do lack depth in the Colorado lineup. Johansen only plays 14 minutes per game, so it may not be as large of a role as 2nd line can sometimes suggest.

As for the Wild, I think many are fine with a bottom 10 finish at this point, after missing a crucial 4 points right before the all-star break.

Maybe trade out Maroon, Duhaime, and Fleury if he would like to go. If decent offers come in for players with limited or full no movement clauses, consider asking if the players want an opportunity with the other team. I wouldn't give up future assets trying to compete this season, but I'm not sure Guerin is comfortable doing that now that they have Spurgeon's cap space to work with.

I likely would bring Shaw up late in the year to play with Dewar, and see if they can rekindle the connection they showed last season.

Edited February 5 by Imyourhuckleberry

[Will D. Ness]

The Firebird is definitely broken down on the side of the freeway being pushed by a couple rookies.

I do think that somebody who speaks Russian is going to drop the clutch in 2nd gear and use the momentum to fire things up and get things rolling, but let's not pretend we are in contention in this race.

I think BG knows it's time to prepare for the next race and he is doing this by bringing in a couple green Russians and helping them become red Russians.  (hehe)

BG knows it's time otherwise we wouldn't have all this chatter, right? 

[mnfaninnc]

I simply disagree with Tom's take here. Pretty much, the whole thing.

1. It is very important for owner Leipold to make the playoffs. That is a starting point for anyone he hired as a GM.
2. Guerin promised us from the start that his team would be competitive. There is quite a difference between being competitive and being a contender. 
3. Competitive play is something I have defined as having meaningful games with a chance at playoffs with 10 games to go. Not a mathematical chance, a real bonafide chance. This box has been checked every year he's been GM except for this year.
4. The word "rebuild" was not to be uttered. Retool, fine. It is possible to do this and build a contender, however, to do this and be competitive, it would require not missing on 1sts (in the late teens/early 20s) and getting some luck in later picks. It is understood that these players would take the full 5 years to develop.
5. Guerin has bought time by having a competitive roster while at the same time rebuilding a cupboard of prospects that is the envy of most teams. 
6. A competitive team is one who makes the playoffs. This team has overperformed and even achieved home ice advantage once. However, being competitive likely means you are 1/8 teams to exit the playoffs after the 1st round. Essentially, luck would be needed to advance, and some teams get that, we didn't.
7. Selling off all of our parts on the firebird that weren't glued down is not the direction to go. Selling off the parts that are not part of the future (not the future core) is the way to go. Specifically, this targets a guy like Middleton who is useful for the future but probably not the core. I've come to grips with probably selling off Duhaime and Dewar, even though they are good, cheap pieces, but they can be backfilled. 
8. What makes anyone think that Guerin/Brackett haven't reloaded? The main issue here is that we haven't been back in the garage to see what is soon to be placed under the hood, a completely rebuilt 420 hp v-8 along with new nimble handling. Unfortunately, it is still under construction as those custom parts take awhile to be manufactured. Will they be ready next season? Probably not all of them, and the setup will need some tweaking.
9. I don't know why we have to keep rehashing this. Nobody "botched" Rossi's development. It was obvious that myocarditis did far more developmental damage to this player than anyone realized. Prospects are supposed to gain strength in the A, Rossi lost weight compared to jrs. If he doesn't add 15 lbs. this offseason, he likely is still playing in the A, and dropping as a prospect. This wasn't a team issue, this was a Rossi issue, as it was his health that created the problem. (though I do think with the track record of our strength and conditioning coaches on other players, not putting an emphasis on strength/weight gain probably also contributed)
10. And, the injuries. For the last 3 seasons, we have been pretty fortunate when it came to injuries. This season, we were not. It's not just man hours down, it's the who the man hours were, and when they happened. You can make the case that it is in aging roster, but young players got hit too. This was simply an unlucky year in this regard. When you couple $15m in lost cap space + injuries to your most important players mainly at once, you're going to get a lot of losses. 

Now, that said, I still maintain that this rebuild/retool/reload is about over as far as obtaining players. We will likely get a really good piece, maybe 2 this draft, but it's more or less gravy. This was signaled by Guerin/Brackett this past draft when they went for sizeable centers with the 1st 2 picks they had. This was what was missing from the prospect pool. 

If we stay in the position we're in now, we likely pick up a large bodied, skilled defender, or a meaningful piece at forward to add to our arsenal. Now it's about developing them and it takes pretty much the full 5 years to do this. Yurov and The Wall may take less time. Our highly touted defenders from jrs. look like they need another year, but they're on schedule. It appears that what Guerin resigned is what he wants around in veteran leadership roles. 

Think about this, if Dino comes over in March, and plays like we think he will, we have Zuccarello's replacement on and ELC until Zuccarello's contract is over. We have Yurov's contract on an ELC until Hartman's is over. We likely don't sign Stramel until next season when his ELC coincides with Foligno's being over. Kumpulainen is the same way. And Freddy will be taking shootout position 3 chances well into his contract where his turn is 30 seconds long. When does Johansson's contract expire? When Rossi needs his extension. Faber is the Wild Card here, as his deal will eat up half of the $15m we get back from the cap penalties. Kaprizov probably eats up another $3m.

There is a method here. There is timing. It's not gloom and doom for the future. 

[MNCountryLife]

The difficult part about building through the draft is that you never really know how good the 18 or 19 year old you picked will be by the time they reach the age of 22 to 25.  So you build as big a pool as you can with the best odds that you can achieve and hope some of them pan out. 

What I don't like is that the IA Wild is horrible.  Which means all of our best prospects are not an option unless something major happens.  It doesn't do us any good to have a good prospect pool if we do a poor job of player development in IA.  We will forever be limited to someone else developing our players.   

[mnfaninnc]

8 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

What I don't like is that the IA Wild is horrible.  Which means all of our best prospects are not an option unless something major happens.

We have a pretty young defense back there. I don't know what Mermis can bring back down as he isn't really a defense 1st guy either. These guys are making mistakes and hopefully learning, mainly having to process quicker. The Wall has been shelled all year, but had held up pretty well until he got hurt. Look at McIntyre's stat line, it's awful.

I think these kids who just came in from jr. got a reality check, need to get bigger and stronger, and need to take a huge leap next season. Think about Lambos, he was a + 60 something last season in jr. and is a -10 this year in the A. Caeden Bankier has 5 goals and 5 assists in 22 games, yet is a -17. 

Guys like this are having to transition and they're rookies for that league. They will get better (though I think there will be another coaching change down in Iowa after the year is up). Also keep in mind that these kids had 1.5 years of stunted growth during the Covid years, so they are going to require a little extra development time. 

[mnfaninnc]

21 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I was a little surprised to read 2nd line for Parise, but they do lack depth in the Colorado lineup. Johansen only plays 14 minutes per game, so it may not be as large of a role as 2nd line can sometimes suggest.

If I'm remembering right, I think CO has been dealing with some injuries on the 2nd line. Parise may start there since he's fresh and has some skill, but I'll bet he slides down the lineup when CO gets healthier.

[mnfaninnc]

24 minutes ago, Lovehockey said:

The main problem is - the prospects need to play.

This seems to be the main point of the argument. The prospects are playing, just in different leagues. I like having a prospect come up for a cup of coffee early on to get a taste of the bright lights and the speed/strength. I think that helps a competitor with motivation on what he needs to do to stay. 

I don't know that I can agree with giving a prospect a full-time position for the year for experience. Meaningful minutes in the A probably help more than sheltered minutes in the N. But, for guys like Beckman who have an A track record, finishing out 20 games on the year in the N might be warranted. 

Lambos would be the defender that is probably most ready that hasn't been called up. I do not have eyes on him in the A, but his stat line suggests that he is struggling to adapt this season to the size and speed. Would it be better to give him 20 games in the N should Merrill and Goligoski be traded? Or would it be better for him to continue in the A with meaningful minutes? I'd like to see him at least get a cup of coffee, but maybe not 20 games. Hunt, on the other hand probably needs those 20 games. He has a track record in the A, so the long look is probably needed. 

[Lovehockey]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

This seems to be the main point of the argument. The prospects are playing, just in different leagues. I like having a prospect come up for a cup of coffee early on to get a taste of the bright lights and the speed/strength. I think that helps a competitor with motivation on what he needs to do to stay. 

I don't know that I can agree with giving a prospect a full-time position for the year for experience. Meaningful minutes in the A probably help more than sheltered minutes in the N. But, for guys like Beckman who have an A track record, finishing out 20 games on the year in the N might be warranted. 

Lambos would be the defender that is probably most ready that hasn't been called up. I do not have eyes on him in the A, but his stat line suggests that he is struggling to adapt this season to the size and speed. Would it be better to give him 20 games in the N should Merrill and Goligoski be traded? Or would it be better for him to continue in the A with meaningful minutes? I'd like to see him at least get a cup of coffee, but maybe not 20 games. Hunt, on the other hand probably needs those 20 games. He has a track record in the A, so the long look is probably needed. 

The 5 year plan is great but it has some problems. The two key defenders - Brodin and Spurgen wil be 35 and 39. So replacement for them needs to be as good (or better) and there is nothing right indicating that it will be . Kaprisov will be 28 why would he want to wait?  Yrov needs to wait for Hartman 3 years? If he is good as he advertised ( and he is doing very well this year in KHL) why he needs to wait? And this list can continue. There is no success with 5 years plans in professional sport unless you are rebuilding. Otherwise people u think will be there will not be and u start again 

[FredJohnson]

Dumb:

signing Marcus Foligno, 

Okay:

Ryan Hartman,

Good value:

Mats Zuccarello 

Malpractice:

Frederick Gaudreau’s five-year, $10 million extension

Someone is blackmailing our GM:

Jon Merrill and Alex Goligoski

[FredJohnson]

2 hours ago, Luke Sims said:

Is this Purgatory?

This is 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, Lovehockey said:

Yrov needs to wait for Hartman 3 years? If he is good as he advertised ( and he is doing very well this year in KHL) why he needs to wait?

No, Yurov will be on an entry level contract for 3 years. He's not waiting to play in the NHL until AFTER his entry level contract. Johansson will be gone after next season and Yurov should take his spot in the top 6 after next season, if not sooner.

Yurov will not be paid a larger contract, however, until after his entry level contract is completed. At that time, the Wild will be beyond most of the salary cap crunch created by the buy-outs and Covid-flattened salary cap. The other extensions will be up around that time as well, leaving more money to be paid to Yurov and other quality veterans when they are up for their next contracts.

[MrCheatachu]

1 hour ago, FredJohnson said:

Malpractice:

Frederick Gaudreau’s five-year, $10 million extension

Someone is blackmailing our GM:

Jon Merrill and Alex Goligoski

Freddy - Is 5 years too long for Freddy?  Maybe, but at an AAV of $2M/year if it really goes south and he's not a productive hockey player (he only has a 15 team NTC) he could be waived and can bury $1.1M of that in the AHL.  Meaning if you buy him out $900k cap hit, or bury him in the AHL (assuming he's not waived) you're only on the hook for him to the tune of $900k against the cap.  Big whoop, that should be noise in your $82M cap space.  Freddy's deal might be a couple of years too long, but it's shouldn't be a boat anchor regardless.

Goose - The rumor (Russo reported on it) that to 'front load' gooses contract before the buyouts kicked in he'd sign a $5M (above market value) and then a second one $2M below market value making him 2x 3.5AAV, but the 2nd year of the contract would be saving the team $1.5M towards the cap.  Not sure why it ended up a 2x$2 extension instead of a 1x$2 but he the '21-22 season he was +41 with 30 points.  If you thought he'd be able to replicate any of that success and was willing to take another year at $2M why not?  Goose has also had a bout with LTIR this season for 'catching a puck to his leg in practice'  I've got to think had Spurgeon not been shutdown for the season, and the team is desperate for a warm body back on 'D' that injury might have kept him out longer.

Merrill...i got nothing, other than that contract could be fully buried in the AHL or he'd get grabbed off waivers.  I think Merrill still being here is more of an indication of our confidence in our prospects being ready than anything else.

I think between now and the TDL if Chisholm appears to be a serviceable NHL player, something would have to give.

 

Edited February 5 by MrCheatachu

[Pewterschmidt]

Answer: more cowbell

[B1GKappa97]

I was also initially upset about the Foligno and Hartman signings but I think this season has also made it pretty clear that there aren't any AHLers currently on the team who are going to be taking over for those two anytime soon. 

Foligno is overpaid but he's also the heart of the team right now, so its easy to see why the GM wanted to keep him around. They're clearly paying for intangibles with him.  Ryan Hartman is getting paid like a low-end top-6 forward, and last I checked that is exactly the kind of player he is. Freddy G at $2.1M? Paid like a low-end top-9 forward, which, again, fits. 

These deals aren't the future backbreakers they're made out to be. 

All it means is that, at worst, we'll be paying $10.1M for our future 3rd line once Yurov and Khusnutdinov make the transition over.. 

[wef]

4 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

I think we need to grab Billy by the scruff of his neck, and rub his face in this season and yell 'NO! NO! BAD! NO!' until he stops shitting all over the place.