Article: Minnesota Could Target A Jake Middleton-Type Player With Spurgeon's LTIR Money

[Justin Hein]

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[Citizen Strife]

Hey, big defensemen for cheap would never be a bad thing.

[nonameprovided]

Trade some draft capital to get worse in the draft... Sweet!

[Will D. Ness]

We did move up 2 spots from #22 to #20 in 2021 to get Wallstedt for a third rd pick.

[mnfaninnc]

I love the idea of getting another Middleton. I'd prefer a RHS, someone younger who can replace Bogosian....eventually. 

But, where do you find such a player? I would suggest he may cost more than a 3rd rounder, but what could a prospect like, say, Firstov bring? We have several prospects which may or may not be in the longterm plans of the organization.

I get that Brackett likes drafting smaller, more mobile, puck moving defenders who can skate well and pass well. That seems to be all he looks for, guys under 6'3" who can skate and handle. And, when developing, having a bunch of guys like that pretty much helps the coaching staff with 1 consistent message, since they will play similarly. What I don't get is why we have a bunch of grinders developing them, and, they pay little attention to bulking them up to be able to handle NHL forwards? I don't think our drafting is bad, I do think our developing needs to be restructured and refocused. 

I guess you can say the same thing about the forwards, except for last year's draft. The focus was on smaller skilled players. Perhaps the thought pattern with both forward and defense was we can develop the skilled guys a certain way and trade for the grinders later. Effective grinders probably need to be identified more in their D+2 or 3 years (much like goalies), and your bottom 6 guys/bottom pairing guys are easy to find and don't cost much on the free agent market. But, again, why would you not emphasize getting to NHL size?

We have been drafting late in the rounds, so you can't really have the size/speed/skill guys like at the top of the draft. That might make someone like Broberg a target to get, even though he hasn't shown off all the skill yet. So, that's what makes this year more important. We are in reach of getting one of those size/speed/skill defenders with our first if we don't screw it up. 

So, who here was really disappointed that Nashville took us down in regulation the other night? It seems like the silver lining of drafting a high pick is more and more growing on me/us. That guy will be ready sooner AND be more in line with the guys we currently have in the system. 

So, that said a look at the prospect pool reveals that:

• Heidt hit 75 points in 43 games
• Kumpulainen is 1 short of 20 goals
• Tiger is still above PPG
• Yurov had another 3 point night the other night, 42 points

I'd really like to see what Guerin can pull off this TDL season. I think Butcher is just the tip of the iceberg as he makes small moves to position himself for larger ones. I'd love a couple of pieces that could help now and help later. Last season, part of what was included in trades were drafted players he did not plan on signing. Could there be more of that this season? 

 

[Will D. Ness]

So using that draft pick value chart, the incentive to tank becomes rather marginal at possibly the 5th pick.  The value between pick 5 and 6 is 35 points which is basically the first 3rd round pick.

This does put tanking into a pretty good perspective.  Lottery aside, there is very marginal value in tanking to move up unless you are a bottom 5 team.

Also, how difficult is it going to be to actually be a worse team than Ottawa and Montreal and Buffalo to get to that 5 spot?  Aren't they also going to be incentivized to tank and have a much easier time doing so?

I highly doubt we can out tank any of these teams even if we sabotage our current roster.  I doubt we can hold our current spot without sabotage.

Damn seems kind of ridiculous to tank actually.  Also seems kind of ridiculous to hope to make the playoffs.  We are in no mans land.  

I think at this point the winning ticket is to focus on player development rather than tanking or bringing in rentals.

[Willy the poor boy]

3 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

We are in no mans land.

For 23 years and counting...

[Burnt Toast]

I’m for trading one of our  forward player/prospects for a comparable D. An NHL, ready for next year and beyond prospect/player. We desperately need help at defense in our mid/ bottom pairings. Hopefully there’s enough cap space left for next year to make this happen. It sure looks like our best prospects arriving will be forwards first. If we can find a value player now I’m all for it. 

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

Also, how difficult is it going to be to actually be a worse team than Ottawa and Montreal and Buffalo to get to that 5 spot?  Aren't they also going to be incentivized to tank and have a much easier time doing so?

I highly doubt we can out tank any of these teams even if we sabotage our current roster.  I doubt we can hold our current spot without sabotage.

Montreal has some pretty good young players. I don't think they are actively tanking either, they've had some pretty good drafts and should be waiting for some pieces to develop. Now they may sell off some coveted pieces like Monahan and some D, to get some extra ammo for the draft. Plus, we beat them twice.

Buffalo is a different story, I think they are really better than us. What is the issue here? Tage has been hurt some, perhaps that has something to do with it? Their rebuild is over, and they just need to play better. This must be a real disappointing season for them. Should they get healthy, I think they end up passing us....unless they are cursed to be in the East. 

4 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I think at this point the winning ticket is to focus on player development rather than tanking or bringing in rentals.

Could our "addition" be Dino? His season ends February 26th, and I'm pretty sure he's not playoff bound. I could see him signed and here by early March. Just how much confidence do you have in our development system? To me, I think it's highly questionable and I particularly question if the right people are in charge of this area. 

But you're right, the winning ticket here is player development! It's not something that can be rushed, especially after Covid and where we were picking from. And, I'll have to admit, I have grown less patient to see the new toys get here and show off. I'd also have to say that if some of the kids get a taste of the N, they will know better what they need this offseason. I'd say this is a big offseason for quite a number of players.

What do we do with Charlie Stramel? Another year at WI or try something else? Does anyone have eyes on him?

[mnfaninnc]

31 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

I’m for trading one of our  forward player/prospects for a comparable D. An NHL, ready for next year and beyond prospect/player. We desperately need help at defense in our mid/ bottom pairings. Hopefully there’s enough cap space left for next year to make this happen. It sure looks like our best prospects arriving will be forwards first. If we can find a value player now I’m all for it. 

Did you have anyone in particular in mind? I'd like an RHS with some size and untapped offense. Perhaps a guy just finishing up his ELC? I simply don't know who's out there, and when we traded for Middleton he was not on my radar one bit. BT, is Firstov on your trade list?

[Burnt Toast]

7 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Did you have anyone in particular in mind? I'd like an RHS with some size and untapped offense. Perhaps a guy just finishing up his ELC? I simply don't know who's out there, and when we traded for Middleton he was not on my radar one bit. BT, is Firstov on your trade list?

Chychrun. 6’2” L shot but plays both sides. Signed through next season.4.6 $M AAV. 25 years old. If he wants to be here past next year he checks a lot of boxes for me. Why not bring him in with this year’s LTIR $. Then extend him next year asap. What would it take for Ottawa to trade? Not sure. Probably depends on what his agent has already been telling them. He’s going to be an UFA after next year.

[mnfaninnc]

3 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Chychrun. 6’2” L shot but plays both sides. Signed through next season.4.6 $M AAV. 25 years old.

This would be a nice target and immediately help with the Spurgeon void. Ottawa paid a lot for him last season, so I'd think he'd be more expensive than what Guerin was wanting to pay (a 3rd round pick). I don't think a 3rd+Firstov would get it done, and I think Ottawa thinks they're close to competing. That said, I think it will take a rostered player who is kind of young in that 25 year old range. To me, Duhaime is the only one who meets that criteria (Ek was a non-starter). So, for this to work, Guerin better have some good pictures of the Ottawa FO. Perhaps Nashville's draft provided them?

[Up North Guy]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

What do we do with Charlie Stramel? Another year at WI or try something else? Does anyone have eyes on him?

He plays the Gophers next weekend so hopefully we can see what is going on with him.

[Will D. Ness]

18 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Montreal has some pretty good young players. I don't think they are actively tanking either, they've had some pretty good drafts and should be waiting for some pieces to develop. Now they may sell off some coveted pieces like Monahan and some D, to get some extra ammo for the draft. Plus, we beat them twice.

Buffalo is a different story, I think they are really better than us. What is the issue here? Tage has been hurt some, perhaps that has something to do with it? Their rebuild is over, and they just need to play better. This must be a real disappointing season for them. Should they get healthy, I think they end up passing us....unless they are cursed to be in the East. 

Buffalo is definitely underperforming similarly but I didn't think they hit the injury bug nearly as bad as we did.  They just haven't really put it together from the games I've watched.  I would blame coaching mostly.  Of all the teams higher in the lottery than us, Buffalo is definitely the one with the most talent though.  They should be close to a playoff team.

After losing to the Ducks though, it's pretty clear that the Wild don't have the depth and don't have the desire to really fight... so tanking might be a little easier.  We may actually get a top 10 pick without major sabotage IMO.

 

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Why? I don't think it will help. Another small D? Trade bait? UGH!!!

When the HCJH says that they need to work on the attention to detail after every loss and it seems to get worse on the structure. There is a re-occurring pattern where they falter in the late stages of the game. Very concerning in my eyes.

Sorry folks but being one of the biggest supporter and fan of the MN Wild, I'm beginning to loosing all confidence in the management. Now that we can see that we are not that good and GMBG has handcuffed the roster with (NTC, NMC, M-NTC) extensions. I still feel it's time for a soft tank and maybe even a shake-up in upper management. I'm sure there are a lot of you who disagree, that's fine. Just giving my opinion.

P.S. How about a new owner? One who believe in building a cup contending team (eg. Chicago) vs. keeping a mediocre team that tries to keep the seats filled?

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Backwoodsbob said:

I'm beginning to loosing all confidence in the management. Now that we can see that we are not that good and GMBG has handcuffed the roster with (NTC, NMC, M-NTC) extensions. I still feel it's time for a soft tank and maybe even a shake-up in upper management. I'm sure there are a lot of you who disagree, that's fine. Just giving my opinion.

I believe that the extensions, all of them early, are a lesson for a new GM to learn. In hindsight, we can see that with the extensions came a lack of urgency. Perhaps Guerin thought we had better character than that? Well, hopefully lesson learned! There was a risk of this happening, but there was a greater risk of signing them early only to have a really bad injury hit. Doing this to a lot of players increases the risk that it will happen to one of them. I'm not talking about the minor stuff we've seen, I'm talking about blowing up a shoulder or having to have hip surgery. Thankfully none of that has happened.

As for the front office shake up, I think you'll get one, not with the Grand Poobah, but with the capologist and logistics guys. That's probably not what you had in mind, but it is a shakeup. Now we need to find a really good capologist. I suppose we'll find one when a GM is fired this offseason, maybe then we can pluck staff!

[mnfaninnc]

Possible trade targets:

Shai Buium- a lefty defender for U of Denver. He's in his 3rd season there and is property of the Detroit Red Wings. 6'3" 209. His stats look good for college hockey, has anyone seen him play?

Scott Morrow- A righty defender playing for U-Mass Amherst. He's in his 3rd season there and is 6'2" 195, property of the Carolina Hurricanes. Stats also look good for college, again, has anyone seen him play?

Logan Mailloux- A righty defender playing for Laval. He's in his first year in the A with the Montreal Canadiens affiliate. 6'3" 220 is pretty imposing, but he actually has some very nice offensive numbers. 

Corson Ceulemans-Another righty defender who is playing in Cleveland, the A affiliate of CBJ. He's 6'2" 198, and played for WI for a couple of years putting up decent numbers. He doesn't have good numbers in the A and has either been hurt or scratched. 

All of these were 2021 late 1st or early 2nd round choices.