Article: Can the Wild Afford Not To Tank?

[Tony Abbott]

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[B1GKappa97]

I'm rooting for it. We need it. More top-6, or top-4 defensemen, on an ELC when we're trying to re-sign Kaprizov will be better than not. This team needs some legit top-tier talent and it looks like they don't currently have anyone in the AHL who's going to be able to answer that call. 

In fact, if they land a stud in the 2024 draft, that should align perfectly with the team's contract landscape. Yurov can come in and replace Johansson's spot in the top-6 in '25-'26 and then the 2024 pick can take Zuccy's spot in '26-'27. 

If the 2024 pick is a top-4 (or top pair!) defenseman, they'll be able to get into the lineup even more quickly, which would be huge for the blue line as Brodin and Spurgeon get older and will need fewer minutes on the ice. Might even move Middleton down to the 3rd pairing, which would be an ideal on-ice advantage for us.

Its really only a good thing for this team's future success to just be bad this year. With the structure in place, they could easily bounce back within a couple seasons if they nail those draft picks. 

Edited January 15 by B1GKappa97

[Burnt Toast]

I’m down. Follow a top pick up with a very high second rounder too. What they’ve been doing has proven to not work. Not to mention right now this team looks dead and burnt out. Alas as you alluded to they’re probably going to push all the chips in and hope to hit on an inside straight. Personally I’d still enjoy the games if there was a clear long term plan to win big. I’m pretty sure the Black Hawks fans enjoyed watching CB this year. What’s the odds on them hitting on Celebrini? That’s what we’re up against. 

[Citizen Strife]

It's one thing to get beaten badly by Dallas and Winnipeg.  It is another to be destroyed by a team like Arizona with close to the same record.  The team itself won't accept losing (nor should they).  Losing sucks.  No player, coach, GM, owner, nor fan should like losing.  That doesn't mean we can't make a silent agreement to kinda WANT that, at this stage.  

The thing is, Arizona won 6-0 while Kaprizov and Gus both got back in.  I like Brodin and Spurgeon, but there is no certainty the switch will suddenly flip back on with them.  Spurgeon has had a rough year.  He's still as valuable on the ice as ever, but staying on the ice has been the issue.  Essentially, what those two being back does is help Faber and Middleton as partners, and take Merrill, Mermis, and Goligoski back down the pecking order (the main issue at play).  

I still don't think the Wild are going to make strides back up.  Other teams are feasting on lackluster special teams play, regardless of what coach or personnel is there.  The team still struggled against Colombus.  This team has problems that won't be fixed by banding together and hoping for the best.  The 6-10 spots are within the Wild's grasp. Teams below them like San Jose and Chicago aren't likely to cough up spots and Edmonton is taking over Wild Card spots with ease, and that means the NHL won't have to worry about *wink wink* screwing the Wild over with ping pong balls.  A 6-10, or even 11-12, should serve getting a new top-4 defenseman to set alongside Faber.  That would be huge.

Edited January 15 by Citizen Strife

[TheNoogie]

Amen

[SpaceCowboy]

A lot has been said regarding Guerin's decision to offer extensions to Mojo, Zuccy, Foligno and Hartman. While at the time I was opposed to the extensions as many here were, is it possible that this was his big brained play to keep the Wild appearing competitive but actually just tanking them to the bottom for the short future? Injuries and age related decline are to be expected with minimal flexibility to change the roster, therefore ensuring the roster will be middling at best. Many wanted a massive tank job, particularly in successive years. Who knows, maybe that's our future? 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

2 hours ago, B1GKappa97 said:

I'm rooting for it. We need it. More top-6, or top-4 defensemen, on an ELC when we're trying to re-sign Kaprizov will be better than not. This team needs some legit top-tier talent and it looks like they don't currently have anyone in the AHL who's going to be able to answer that call. 

I've been more "accepting of it" than rooting for it. The Wild aren't capable of competing when missing several key players and they've been missing multiple key contributors for much of the season. They have quite a few promising young prospects, but none who are capable of helping in a major role right now among those who didn't begin the season with the Wild.

I won't be upset if the Wild start winning over 50% of their games again like prior years, as winning is generally more fun, but if they continue to lose games this season, that likely is better for the long-term future of the franchise.

At the very least, I will root for them to lose more competitively than 6-0, and allow fewer hat tricks against, particularly when facing mediocre teams.

[Protec]

I think it's absolutely hilarious that Bjugstad lights up the Wild after being healthy and good for AZ. 

Guerin in one of his special thoughts signs all types of veteran players but let's Bjugstad go who is exactly perfect for MN.

That is funny. Guerin did so well with his level-reserved start in MN that it's gone to his head. Period. He's in a slump. He needs to snap out of it. Take a loss this year. Don't try to dig yourself out of it with anything clever. Take the self-imposed penalty, humble yourself, and admit defeat. Come back to fight another day better and don't repeat your mistakes. 

[B1GKappa97]

22 minutes ago, SpaceCowboy said:

A lot has been said regarding Guerin's decision to offer extensions to Mojo, Zuccy, Foligno and Hartman. While at the time I was opposed to the extensions as many here were, is it possible that this was his big brained play to keep the Wild appearing competitive but actually just tanking them to the bottom for the short future? Injuries and age related decline are to be expected with minimal flexibility to change the roster, therefore ensuring the roster will be middling at best. Many wanted a massive tank job, particularly in successive years. Who knows, maybe that's our future? 

I doubt he signed them expecting the injuries that have hit this year to be as bad as they have been. He probably thought another 100-point season was in the books. He's all about f*cking winning, after all. 

That said, its not the worst thing for it to blow up on us this year. We need more size in the top-6, or offensive capability in the top-4, and we should be able to get that with a pick in or around the top-10 versus back in the 20s. 

Whether a similarly frustrating season happens again next year likely depends on the health of the team again due to the remaining year of cap-penalties and a lack of prospects ready to graduate from the AHL to the NHL. 

[B1GKappa97]

8 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I've been more "accepting of it" than rooting for it. The Wild aren't capable of competing when missing several key players and they've been missing multiple key contributors for much of the season. They have quite a few promising young prospects, but none who are capable of helping in a major role right now among those who didn't begin the season with the Wild.

I won't be upset if the Wild start winning over 50% of their games again like prior years, as winning is generally more fun, but if they continue to lose games this season, that likely is better for the long-term future of the franchise.

At the very least, I will root for them to lose more competitively than 6-0, and allow fewer hat tricks against, particularly when facing mediocre teams.

Yeah losing 3-4 is much better than 0-6.

That said, I hope they don't go on a run in the 2nd half. That would be the worst thing. Its highly unlikely they catch up to the WC teams, so ending up with a pick in the teens when we were sitting with a top-10 pick halfway through the year would be very Minnesotan; IE: disappointing 😞

[Protec]

[MNCountryLife]

The only opinion that matters is Leipold. If he is patient and doesn't do anything unnecessary the team appears capable of tanking all on its own.  We will be bad for these 2 years but we should get 2 solid picks in 24 and 25.  Along with a several other prospects entering the "Now" phase to produce a very competitive team.  Yep.. Sucks big time to watch a team get beat by AZ 0-6.  

If he isn't patient he may just send some of these prospects away and may even push for a playoff position this year and next... but that will reduce our pick and have fewer players in the prospect pool being ready in 25-26 and we still won't win a cup this year or next.

We as fans need to let Leipold know that we are okay with losing right now as long as you make the right decisions later.  I will still cheer, watch and lament the loses but I will understand the why... Commit to it.  

[MacGyver]

If we are defining "tank" as purposefully and knowingly throwing games then they best not. That is hardly any different than rigging your own games for betting purposes. How does a player accomplish this? Purposely lose face offs? Purposely shoot wide? Lose puck battles in the corner? I would hope the vast majority would out any GM or coach who told them to do such a thing. 

To me when we talk about they should just tank that's what it is. Tanking needs to happen organically like I'm hoping that what's happening now that it's organic and not designed. 

[Willy the poor boy]

26 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

If we are defining "tank" as purposefully and knowingly throwing games then they best not. That is hardly any different than rigging your own games for betting purposes. How does a player accomplish this? Purposely lose face offs? Purposely shoot wide? Lose puck battles in the corner? I would hope the vast majority would out any GM or coach who told them to do such a thing. 

To me when we talk about they should just tank that's what it is. Tanking needs to happen organically like I'm hoping that what's happening now that it's organic and not designed. 

Tanking as in, getting the young guys valuable playing time.

[Willy the poor boy]

54 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

The only opinion that matters is Leipold. If he is patient and doesn't do anything unnecessary the team appears capable of tanking all on its own.  We will be bad for these 2 years but we should get 2 solid picks in 24 and 25.  Along with a several other prospects entering the "Now" phase to produce a very competitive team.  Yep.. Sucks big time to watch a team get beat by AZ 0-6.  

If he isn't patient he may just send some of these prospects away and may even push for a playoff position this year and next... but that will reduce our pick and have fewer players in the prospect pool being ready in 25-26 and we still won't win a cup this year or next.

We as fans need to let Leipold know that we are okay with losing right now as long as you make the right decisions later.  I will still cheer, watch and lament the loses but I will understand the why... Commit to it.  

I'm more and more convinced that Leo didn't fight for a grandfather policy for ZP and RS because it puts in excess of 30 mill in his pocket. so for me it's not OK for this team to put a losing product on the ice. 

[B1GKappa97]

33 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

If we are defining "tank" as purposefully and knowingly throwing games then they best not. That is hardly any different than rigging your own games for betting purposes. How does a player accomplish this? Purposely lose face offs? Purposely shoot wide? Lose puck battles in the corner? I would hope the vast majority would out any GM or coach who told them to do such a thing. 

To me when we talk about they should just tank that's what it is. Tanking needs to happen organically like I'm hoping that what's happening now that it's organic and not designed. 

Its not really throwing games so much as not mortgaging the future to try and win more now. 

Luckily for us, there's not much to be done for that this year! 

[mnfaninnc]

Watching the play from the eye test suggests the team is playing with very low confidence. Now, that could change, but it seems like now, the first sign of adversity, what comes into player's minds is "here we go again." Philly sealed the deal on this one.

I have to admit, I'm looking to the future, and the future looks bright drafting at #6. This only gets accomplished if Guerin looks at his team and says "not this year." Would OCL agree? Well, he did give Fenton the go ahead to tear down the roster before Guerin arrived. The thing about Fenton, though, was he didn't get a particularly useful return, except for Fiala.

So, I think Guerin needs to be working the phones hard, and not talking to the media. See what he can get for guys like Goligoski, Merrill, Duhaime, Maroon, and maybe even Dewar (I'd hold off on this one) and maybe even Bogosian. 

The thing is, when it's selling season, teams tend to overpay. While these guys may not be worth more than mid round picks, they could be an important piece to the puzzle for someone. For instance, could Tampa Bay trade back for one of these guys? Would Fleury/Goligoski want to take one more shot at a cup? Certainly Merrill could help someone with defensive depth? But here's the thing, what do you get back for them?

Typically, a 5th rounder this year is worth a 3rd rounder in '26, maybe a 2nd in '27. Instead of trying to bulk up low round picks for the '24 draft, why not take a chance on higher picks in later drafts, drafts where we expect that our prospects will have just graduated? We'll need to restock the prospect pool then. 

But, what this does is a couple of things:

1. It opens up some space for AHL players to make their debut and see how they look. It gives them valuable experience
2. It opens up some space to sign a college FA, maybe like a Marco Sturm?
3. It directly signals to a guy like Danila Yurov that you can sign here, there's room
4. Perhaps, I'm not sure, but maybe Dino and Ohgren get here before the regular season ends?
5. It weakens the depth now, which would allow the team to be a little undermanned. That is how you tank.
6. Carson Lambos, Adam Beckman and maybe Sammy Walker would get an extended look, as would The Wall.

This would be Guerin's decision. Now, if I'm owner Craig Leipold, I'm having a tough time swallowing giving up on the season when it's just half over. I think we've got 8 games to the All Star break, in a condensed schedule. I'd say that would be decision making time and we'd be at about 50 games. 

The other thought is to trade some of our guys for prospects instead of draft picks. Perhaps Brackett had some guys he loved but they got taken? Why not try to pry them loose now? Mateo Mann is a guy who I'd be looking at, 6'6" 227 playing for Philly's A team. Philly is in the thick of the playoff race and I'd have to believe they need some depth. Mann is the kind of guy we don't have in the organization. 

Also of note, we currently have 46/50 contracts filled. We've got 4 spots unaccounted for. This could be college free agents. I'd certainly be looking at every goalie I could find at this point. We need goalie depth and that would be like a free late round draft pick.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

If we are defining "tank" as purposefully and knowingly throwing games then they best not. That is hardly any different than rigging your own games for betting purposes. How does a player accomplish this? Purposely lose face offs? Purposely shoot wide? Lose puck battles in the corner? I would hope the vast majority would out any GM or coach who told them to do such a thing. 

Didn't the Dolphins owner recently get caught doing that by trying to give his coach a bonus for losing? Wasn't that coach Flores who wouldn't do it?

[Willy the poor boy]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Didn't the Dolphins owner recently get caught doing that by trying to give his coach a bonus for losing? Wasn't that coach Flores who wouldn't do it?

Yes. The owner got caught on Flores word AFTER Flores was fired. Could be gamesmanship, could be the truth, it's anyone's guess.

[Up North Guy]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Didn't the Dolphins owner recently get caught doing that by trying to give his coach a bonus for losing? Wasn't that coach Flores who wouldn't do it?

Yup

[Will D. Ness]

19 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Tanking as in, getting the young guys valuable playing time.

In the case of Goligoski and Merrill, then I believe to tank would be letting the old guys have valuable playing time.

[FredJohnson]