Article: Bill Guerin Has Burned the Ships

[mnfaninnc]

25 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I might argue that the Benito Brackett duo cannot survive if Wally doesn't become a #1 with the Wild.  We can afford to have Ohgren become Duhaime 2.0 or for Khuz to become Tyson Pot Roast, but not Wally.  He's gotta become The Guy, next year.  or year after at latest.

Why would you need to rush The Wall in his development. History says that goalies don't make their true mark until 25. I would expect next year he is a backup, the following year he is a backup/1B, and he'd try out for 1A the following year. He and Goose2 would make up a very decent battery and probably fairly inexpensive. 

If he stays healthy, I would think he'd be on a trajectory to be more than The Guy. I'd think he'd be more on a King Hendrik trajectory. Give him the time he needs. This much I can say: There is quite a difference between an A guy snapping off a wrister at 10' than an N player doing the same. I'll bet he shows up better this weekend. 

 

[IllicitFive]

38 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

Interesting take.  Guerin didn't have the money to go steal a player from another team.  Clearly the players in the A are not ready for the N.  So what else could Guerin have done to salvage the season.   I think you are correct.  Probably nothing.  He did what he could.

My concern would be that we can't trade players away for more draft picks or other players because of the no-move clauses.  That could have been better.  I wonder if BG looks at next year and says this is as good as it will get.  Are we really in for another 1.5 years of horrible hockey.  Probably.... and that sucks.

Losing sucks, makes watching this team 0 fun. But for a long time the mantra was "we need to tank for a top pick, we can't win unless we get a top pick" Now we are tanking (which is seemed a lot of individuals wanted) and now its the "BG ruined this team, why are we not competitive, look at how garbage this year is". I agree with a lot of point but just find it funny that it seems the same people who weren't happy not tanking are now unhappy tanking.

I don't know, I love hockey, even in this season I love watching because well, I am a masochist? Frustrating? Yes. Yelling at the tv when we get shelled by the former north stars? Absolutely. but when you are playing 40 mil short what can we expect. Its a crap year, too many big injuries to key players, 15 mil cap hit, just not a recipe to win.

While we are all hyped for the young guns and want to see them, what if they aren't ready yet? Hear me out, imagine a situation where contracts end, 15 mil in cap is back to use AND the young guys are ready on ELC. The buying power you have in FA will be insane. Have that with possibly tanking for a year or 2 with high draft picks? Boy howdy we may have a stew going.  I am joining citizen on this, look at bright side and hope 2 to 3 years from now we are just beginning a long run of being a threat to the rest of the league. It may never happen, but I am the typical minnesota fan, always have hope and ready to have it shattered again. OK I am done ranting.

Side note to mnfan, much respect to your long paragraphs as often as you have them, love to read them but dang, lot to type out and not sound like a crazy person haha, kudos to you.

[mnfaninnc]

17 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

I haven't really thought about this much ... are we lacking in player variety?  

You would tend to get this when looking for overperforming players. I think you'd need an in depth study of each rostered player. Hynes has spoken often about identity. He wants a team identity and even breaks that down to a line identity and a pairing identity. 

Part of the player variety is located on the IR list. But, the other part that says speed & skill are turning from Boys to Men. This is where it gets a little murky, mainly because we do not have all of our top prospects in the A. They're a little harder to find. But, this much I can say, those speed & skill guys are coming. This team will have a different identity in a couple of seasons. Each line's identity will change. Our defensive pairings will be very strong again, and we'll see that great puck moving defense like we're used to. 

Essentially, with some of the players, timing didn't match up. We didn't plan on Merrill and Goligoski cliff diving in Acapulco. Faber was a late arrival, but has filled in admirably for Dumba. Addison couldn't play defense and didn't really want to learn how. O'Rourke couldn't put on the necessary weight. Hunt is breaking in, and Lambos is hopefully adapting to a new league. Spacek, Masters, Peart were always going to take a little longer. 

A similar thing happened with the offense. Fiala was moved out, but his replacement piece(s) just aren't here yet. I think there was hope Beckman could fill in, but even he has failed to bulk up to where he needs to be to compete in the N. His opportunity came, and unfortunately, no one was home to answer the phone.

Also on The Wall's struggles. Typically, a player, especially really good ones, remember the shellackings more than the wins. Fleury is around for just the rest of the year. He is a good assistant coach and I'm glad that The Wall struggled while he was still here. Fleury will help The Wall get past this. This is not The Wall's tryout for the rest of the season, this is The Wall's cup of coffee debut where he will soon be called into Shooter's office and given things to work on when he is sent back down to the A. It will be positive. If we're worried about the defensive play in front of him at the N level, know this, he's getting just as much terrible support in the A, so he's used to it!

[Pewterschmidt]

16 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

He and Goose2 would make up a very decent battery and probably fairly inexpensive. 

I don't disagree with this.  Except that I heard speculation that the Gus Bus will be a decent trade chip (one of only a few we have) at TDL this year and I'd already convinced myself this is happening.  So that would leave a fully washed Fleury and Wally next year.  I think the consensus is that Wally's in the N next year.

Is Hunter Jones still in our system? 

[mnfaninnc]

2 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I don't disagree with this.  Except that I heard speculation that the Gus Bus will be a decent trade chip (one of only a few we have) at TDL this year and I'd already convinced myself this is happening.  So that would leave a fully washed Fleury and Wally next year.  I think the consensus is that Wally's in the N next year.

Is Hunter Jones still in our system? 

I don't know why we would trade Goose2 except that he doesn't have a designation. It's still quite an affordable deal, he is young, and likely part of the solution. This would not be a piece I would trade. 

Since Fleury's on the end of his deal, I do not believe we will resign him. He will have made his longterm legacy goals by the end of the season too. So, this would call into speculation that another rideshare goalie would need to be acquired and we could do a lot worse on that than just keeping Goose2.

Yes, Hunter Jones is still in the system. He is currently with the Heartlanders and not doing well. He played 1 game with the Baby Wild and got shelled. Guerin/Brackett have not spent late round picks on goalies in the past few seasons. They should have been doing this. Hunter Jones appears to be playing with a severe lack of confidence. I think a change of scenery at the end of the year would be best for both parties. 

Incidentally, the one that got away, Filip Lindberg is playing back in Finland and not doing real well. With the Baby Pens, he was only able to play 26 games in 2 years. He now plays for TPS in the Liiga.

Guerin has come out and said previously that he is not a goalie guy. I don't know if Brackett is either, but our pipeline for 'tenders is in trouble. Spend a 5-7 rounder every year on a goalie and hope one pans out. It's more of a crapshoot with the 'tenders as they have so long to develop and you never know when their confidence gets shot. Also, I do think it is a decent strategy to take an overager late in a draft. Those guys can give you an extra year or 2 of development. Out of all the E players, goalies are the most likely to make it.

[Will D. Ness]

Are we tanking on purpose or on accident?

It seems to be on purpose, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking all this might be just bad coaching choices.

[Pewterschmidt]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

It's still quite an affordable deal, he is young, and likely part of the solution.

Which is why he's got market value and could be flipped to fill other needs given We'll have Our Can't Miss Goalie Prospect in the N.  We go get Cam Talbot 2.0 to complete the tandem for next 3 years.

[Pewterschmidt]

6 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

Are we tanking on purpose or on accident?

I think this is accident.  The last two 100+ point seasons were a mirage (1st round exits are the proof) and now we're feeling the pain of the buyouts.  We're also feeling the pain of Chuck Fletcher's trade the future to win now strategy which has created 5+ years of barren prospect pipeline.  This is also why I keep saying Benito's picks need to become top 9 nhl'rs ASAP.  If not the org. experiences7-8 yrs of no help from developing it's own.  For a team to succeed it needs a balance of cheap internally developed players supplemented with a couple free agent home runs.  Brian Rolston is a free agent home run.  Stall, Pominville = home runs.  NoJo = bean ball.  Gudreau = base on balls.

[MrCheatachu]

15 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

Are we tanking on purpose or on accident?

It seems to be on purpose, but in the back of my mind I'm thinking all this might be just bad coaching choices.

Accident, and you could also question if we're really tanking, or if how the wild have looked over the past 5 games were the perfect storm of injuries and playing both WPG twice and DAL twice...two teams who've had the wild's number.

According to Dom, the MN wild had the 5th hardest first half schedule, and the 2nd easiest second half schedule

You gotta beat the teams you're better than, and the problem is the Wild dont meet those guys a lot until the back half of the season.

[mnfaninnc]

15 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I think this is accident.  The last two 100+ point seasons were a mirage (1st round exits are the proof) and now we're feeling the pain of the buyouts.  We're also feeling the pain of Chuck Fletcher's trade the future to win now strategy which has created 5+ years of barren prospect pipeline.  This is also why I keep saying Benito's picks need to become top 9 nhl'rs ASAP.  If not the org. experiences7-8 yrs of no help from developing it's own.  For a team to succeed it needs a balance of cheap internally developed players supplemented with a couple free agent home runs.  Brian Rolston is a free agent home run.  Stall, Pominville = home runs.  NoJo = bean ball.  Gudreau = base on balls.

I think a lot of this falls on the player development staff. All those guys are grit guys. If you would departmentalize the player development side, have a guy in charge of the forwards, a guy in charge of the defenders, and a guy in charge of the goalies, I think we'd be better. Especially, if those guys were highly respected former NHL players, not like the guys we have there now. 

In this format, someone like Koivu would do really well for the forwards. We don't have that defender yet, though, Goligoski might be able to transition into that role. Fleury would do well in the goalie role eventually. All of these guys would pay attention to the prospects, not just the guys in the A. They'd visit college campuses and jr. teams at least twice a year, and they'd take a couple of tours in Europe each year (sometimes coinciding with the WJCs). I do not like the way the department is run right now, and I think this is one area where Shooter has not put his stamp on the franchise. He's taken more of the "this is the way it's always been" approach.

Nashville did this with Phil Housley and the results were a consistent pipeline of defenders coming up to the big club. I think we could do this. And, we also need a far better strength coach.

[mnfaninnc]

18 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

You gotta beat the teams you're better than, and the problem is the Wild dont meet those guys a lot until the back half of the season.

and you got to be relatively healthy when you face them.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

Side note to mnfan, much respect to your long paragraphs as often as you have them, love to read them but dang, lot to type out and not sound like a crazy person haha, kudos to you.

Thanks. It is a lot to type out sometimes, and is frustrating when my "a" was sticking. I couldn't do it on a mobile device. The ads would drive me crazy!

[Pewterschmidt]

30 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

we also need a far better strength coach.

And add Buttock Bulking Coach underneath the Strength coach on the org chart.  We need a specialist here.  Maybe even two coaches.   Left buttock and right buttock coaches.  If they stick together we can prevent a shit show next season.  Heyohhhh!!

[MNCountryLife]

1 hour ago, IllicitFive said:

I don't know, I love hockey, even in this season I love watching because well, I am a masochist?

That is funny.  I've also watched almost every game right to the end.  Yep..  I fall into that category as well.  I wish for better play yet at the exact same time contradict myself by hoping for a higher draft pick.  I can't win even in my own head.

[WheelSnipeCelly]

Some great news from Russo today: 

"Kaprizov, Brodin and Gustavsson getting extra work and contact now. How they respond will determine when they can play, maybe some tomorrow vs. AZ. Fleury starts tonight #mnwild"

[WheelSnipeCelly]

Also, some line shuffling by Hynes for tonight: 

Boldy — Hartman — Zuccarello
Johansson — Ek — Foligno
Maroon — Rossi — Gaudreau
Duhaime — Dewar — Raska

Middleton — Faber
Goligoski — Bogosian
Merrill — Mermis

Fleury

Interesting line with Rossi, Maroon and Gaudreau. Have Maroon, Foligno, and Hartman played much on a line together this season so far? I could see them being a line that could really be hard to play against. Maybe they're just trying to balance the lines out more? Also, the last few games I keep having to re-read Raska's name as it keeps giving me flashbacks to Rask...

[Pewterschmidt]

2 minutes ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

Boldy — Hartman — Zuccarello
Johansson — Ek — Foligno
Maroon — Rossi — Gaudreau
Duhaime — Dewar — Raska

Hynzy has the line blender out again, and I like it.  Keep blending until some natural chemistry shows itself.  I think this will be perceived as a demotion for Rossi.  Not butt hurt by this as he's been pedestrian lately.  Let's see how he responds.  Boldy also needs to become more noticeable on every shift.  Zuccy should help with that.

Love me some Raska.  Get it done young man.  There will likely be opening on 4th line next year and you can secure your spot now.

[Will D. Ness]

10 minutes ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

Also, some line shuffling by Hynes for tonight: 

Boldy — Hartman — Zuccarello
Johansson — Ek — Foligno
Maroon — Rossi — Gaudreau
Duhaime — Dewar — Raska

Middleton — Faber
Goligoski — Bogosian
Merrill — Mermis

Fleury

Interesting line with Rossi, Maroon and Gaudreau. Have Maroon, Foligno, and Hartman played much on a line together this season so far? I could see them being a line that could really be hard to play against. Maybe they're just trying to balance the lines out more? Also, the last few games I keep having to re-read Raska's name as it keeps giving me flashbacks to Rask...

I agree Maroon Foligno Hartman would be good but I would put Ek in the middle of Foligno and Marroon.  I would also go Boldy Rossi Zucc.

Put NoJo and Freddy and Hartman, the line of misplaced toys, together and just see if something good comes from the chaos. 

Glad to see Raska back... completely disgusted to see Goligoski or Merrill over Hunt.

 

[MrCheatachu]

1 hour ago, WheelSnipeCelly said:

Also, the last few games I keep having to re-read Raska's name as it keeps giving me flashbacks to Rask...

Watching the play of all 4 lines the past 5 games gives me flashbacks to Rask...

[Tony Abbott]

5 hours ago, IllicitFive said:

Losing sucks, makes watching this team 0 fun. But for a long time the mantra was "we need to tank for a top pick, we can't win unless we get a top pick" Now we are tanking (which is seemed a lot of individuals wanted) and now its the "BG ruined this team, why are we not competitive, look at how garbage this year is". I agree with a lot of point but just find it funny that it seems the same people who weren't happy not tanking are now unhappy tanking.

It's not the losing that's frustrating, it's the inability to make losing work for you. This feels a lot different if they were looking to amass some first-and-second-round picks next month.

[Tony Abbott]

All the muscles need to be bigger. We gotta get big muscles. We're gonna have the biggest muscles in the world.

[FredJohnson]

12 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

He's definitely burning Goodwill.

Poor Goodwill! What'd they do to Billy?!

[B1GKappa97]

22 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

That is funny.  I've also watched almost every game right to the end.  Yep..  I fall into that category as well.  I wish for better play yet at the exact same time contradict myself by hoping for a higher draft pick.  I can't win even in my own head.

Ideally they’d make it entertaining and still lose! But a 7-2 beat down isn’t very fun to watch 😞 

The Flyers game was an entertaining loss though. Lose more like that, boys!

[MacGyver]

I shut the game off the second the Flyers finished off the Wild. I was afraid Audra and Parrish would be wearing those flower glasses and headbands in post game. They ambushed me with it the first time I wasn't going to let it happen twice!😵‍💫

[FredJohnson]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:24 AM, MNCountryLife said:

My concern would be that we can't trade players away for more draft picks or other players because of the no-move clauses.  That could have been better.  I wonder if BG looks at next year and says this is as good as it will get.  Are we really in for another 1.5 years of horrible hockey.  Probably.... and that sucks.

Same for me. Would it have killed us (Wild Org) if the contracts (Foligno, NoJo, Hatzy and Hobbit) had been done after this season?