Article: John Hynes's System Adjustments Drove His Honeymoon Period

[Justin Hein]

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[Will D. Ness]

We need a better 3rd pairing D in this system.  Goligoski is the slowest guy on the ice (in the league?).  Merrill is an emergency stop gap at best.

[Justin Hein]

26 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

We need a better 3rd pairing D in this system.  Goligoski is the slowest guy on the ice (in the league?).  Merrill is an emergency stop gap at best.

For what they're paid, these guys are fine. Minnesota has been spoiled with a deep corps of defensemen for a long time. Our current third pairing looks bad if you mostly watch the Wild, but most NHL teams just live like this. 

Now, the depth is on the third line. Foligno, Hartman, and Maroon are all performing very effectively. That should balance out the ugly plays from the bottom pairing. 

Help is on the way next year -- Hunt, Lambos, and O'Roarke should push for a roster spot next year. 

[Dean]

DE was out a week ago saying he didn’t want to give out secrets but kappy is hurt and has been since start of year. . Today you can read he’s now blaming the goalies for his firing. What an entitled baby. It’s not normal to be out talking about injuries to your former player or to blame certain players for your downfall. How often have you heard fired coaches run around media outlets making excuses for there firing? They usually just go away with class and dignity.  DE embodies the entitled culture bill has created.

[Pewterschmidt]

14 minutes ago, Dean said:

Today you can read he’s now blaming the goalies for his firing.

My spidey senses tingled when I heard him expose the 97 injury situation.  I'm sure the org. was not happy with him doing this.  If he's now out blaming the goalies, he needs to be careful because there must be language in his contract that allows Leo to stop paying Dean if rules are broken.

All that said, if I'm Dean I'm pissed too getting fired after 20 games half of them without spurge, Boldyzy and Fred.  And the goalies did suck the tail pipe over that stretch.  

[Quebec1648]

12 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

My spidey senses tingled when I heard him expose the 97 injury situation.  I'm sure the org. was not happy with him doing this.  If he's now out blaming the goalies, he needs to be careful because there must be language in his contract that allows Leo to stop paying Dean if rules are broken.

All that said, if I'm Dean I'm pissed too getting fired after 20 games half of them without spurge, Boldyzy and Fred.  And the goalies did suck the tail pipe over that stretch.  

Dean Evason was the fall guy to protect Bill Guerin. Barely a week before the Evason firing, Bill Guerin was acting like it was all the players fault and that there was nothing the coaches could do to fix it. After the Sweden trip, Guerin did a 180 and fired Evason and Woods. Guerin went from exonorating the coaches to scapegoating the coaches in short order. I would have given Evason until at least Christmas or preferably the All star break, but Leopold must have been putting pressure on Guerin to stop the slide.

[FredJohnson]

3 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

We need a better 3rd pairing D in this system.  Goligoski is the slowest guy on the ice (in the league?).  Merrill is an emergency stop gap at best.

I'll go further and say Merrill is a turnover machine.

[FredJohnson]

[IllicitFive]

1 hour ago, Quebec1648 said:

Dean Evason was the fall guy to protect Bill Guerin. Barely a week before the Evason firing, Bill Guerin was acting like it was all the players fault and that there was nothing the coaches could do to fix it. After the Sweden trip, Guerin did a 180 and fired Evason and Woods. Guerin went from exonorating the coaches to scapegoating the coaches in short order. I would have given Evason until at least Christmas or preferably the All star break, but Leopold must have been putting pressure on Guerin to stop the slide.

Should he have fired/cut the players? There are only a few things a GM can do early/mid season, dumping the coach is pretty much all that was left after meetings and what not. I liked Dean myself, was excited to see what he could do when the young guns got a chance but the time had come for a change, the players weren't responding and the season has been embarrassing, I am not convinced all the players would regress this hard due to age. Should Bill have fired himself? He called out players, rightfully so, because they were playing like horse dung. Looked lifeless and checked out. He would then support the coaches because, well, that's what you do, the coaches aren't playing and I bet are doing everything they can to motivate, days off, extra practice, talking to them, yelling at them. Nothing was working, Bill then comes in and rips the players apart, nothing. You don't have many options left, and well, it looks like the right call, going 4-1, and even their loss they looked like a much different team. Would them losing 17 or 20 then firing have been better if that happened or would people be asking why did he wait so damn long?

[Backwoodsbob]

Quote

They play four games in three days, then six games in ten days.

Is there a double header that I missed somewhere?

[Quebec1648]

20 hours ago, IllicitFive said:

Should he have fired/cut the players? There are only a few things a GM can do early/mid season, dumping the coach is pretty much all that was left after meetings and what not. I liked Dean myself, was excited to see what he could do when the young guns got a chance but the time had come for a change, the players weren't responding and the season has been embarrassing, I am not convinced all the players would regress this hard due to age. Should Bill have fired himself? He called out players, rightfully so, because they were playing like horse dung. Looked lifeless and checked out. He would then support the coaches because, well, that's what you do, the coaches aren't playing and I bet are doing everything they can to motivate, days off, extra practice, talking to them, yelling at them. Nothing was working, Bill then comes in and rips the players apart, nothing. You don't have many options left, and well, it looks like the right call, going 4-1, and even their loss they looked like a much different team. Would them losing 17 or 20 then firing have been better if that happened or would people be asking why did he wait so damn long?

My entire point, was that a week before the firing, Guerin was talking as if the coaches were safe and not to blame for the slide. Guerin said it was on the players to turn things around. You can`t make those statements, and then fire the coach a week later. That's why Evason should have been given more time. The Wild are a wild card team at best this year, so keeping Evason on a few more weeks would not change much. Guerin also brought in one of his buddies as the new coach, which is also suspect.

The Suter / Fletcher country club is gone, but it has been replaced by the Guerin country club.

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:28 AM, Will D. Ness said:

We need a better 3rd pairing D in this system.  Goligoski is the slowest guy on the ice (in the league?).  Merrill is an emergency stop gap at best.

I noticed this specifically against Vancouver. It seemed like they made rookies mistakes but were vets. I'd rather have rookie mistakes from rookies who are faster and need to learn.

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:00 PM, Justin Hein said:

Help is on the way next year -- Hunt, Lambos, and O'Roarke should push for a roster spot next year. 

I think Hunt is ready to surpass Merrill this year. O'Rourke may not make it. He plays way too violent of a game to be at 180lbs. He needs bulk for his style especially. 

[mnfaninnc]

23 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

Dean Evason was the fall guy to protect Bill Guerin. Barely a week before the Evason firing, Bill Guerin was acting like it was all the players fault and that there was nothing the coaches could do to fix it. After the Sweden trip, Guerin did a 180 and fired Evason and Woods. Guerin went from exonorating the coaches to scapegoating the coaches in short order. I would have given Evason until at least Christmas or preferably the All star break, but Leopold must have been putting pressure on Guerin to stop the slide.

In hindsight, the first part was Guerin lying through his teeth. I think it was Ryan Carter who stated (maybe it was Walz in Calgary) that Hynes was asked by Guerin a couple of weeks before the firing to watch the Wild games and get a feel for the team. That kind of heads up only comes when a GM is planning on making a change. I thought he wouldn't do it before Sweden but if things weren't successful over there (they weren't) Evason was in deep trouble. 

Guerin's problem was that he needed a viable replacement for Evason. Prior to the firing, I didn't realize he wanted to also let Woods go. Could Darby have been interim coach? I don't think so, not with the expectation of turning the ship around to make the playoffs. So, Guerin turned to one of his guys, gave him a heads up to watch and analyze, and this way Hynes did not come in stone cold. 

Guerin may also have known that Hynes was meticulous in his details, and would need some time to get up to speed. I did not know that Hynes was on Guerin's short list, did anyone else?

Also, against Edmonton, with tired legs, to me, it looked like the Wild started to defer to old habits (something done when the physical body gets tired). Those old habits were standing still and firing long passes. I believe this will be addressed today as they prepare for Seattle. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Quebec1648 said:

You can`t make those statements, and then fire the coach a week later. That's why Evason should have been given more time.

Yes you can, and it happens all the time. It was the dreaded vote of confidence to the coaching staff. That typically lasts about 2 weeks. If nothing turns around, the coach is gone. That was really a warning shot across the bow of Evason to get different results or you're done.

[mnfaninnc]

Also, on Kaprizov being hurt, I believe it is absolutely true. Here is my evidence:

• He looks like he has trouble going 10-2 to the right
• He used to be strong on his stick, it isn't there
• His balance looks off
• His skating posture looks like he leaning too far forward

I'm guessing he has something wrong with his left hip that was damaged when Stanley fell on him awkwardly. He may be playing through it, but something is definitely wrong. 

[IllicitFive]

1 hour ago, Quebec1648 said:

My entire point, was that a week before the firing, Guerin was talking as if the coaches were safe and not to blame for the slide. Guerin said it was on the players to turn things around. You can`t make those statements, and then fire the coach a week later. That's why Evason should have been given more time. The Wild are a wild card team at best this year, so keeping Evason on a few more weeks would not change much. Guerin also brought in one of his buddies as the new coach, which is also suspect.

The Suter / Fletcher country club is gone, but it has been replaced by the Guerin country club.

Are you wanting a GM with no loyalties to players? I would have a hard time believing there is a GM who does have "his guys".  While we may not agree with the extensions I respect the reasoning stated of knowing what financial situation you will have going forward. The young guys may not be ready yet, and bringing them up early can limit development., therefore rushing this would cause longer term issues. Moose may not have the points we like but veteran leadership is also important. Zuc numbers look really good so far. Marcus J, well, that one is bad but had to gamble on the production he had with Boldy last year, because, damn it looked good.  Hartman is well, Hartman, hot and cold (waiting for the hot maybe)

As far as you can't make those statements then fire a coach a week later..... well he did so obviously he can. Again, you can't fire the players even if it is on them, you gotta make a change and that is the card he could play. Yes the new coach is someone he worked with in the past, who would you want instead? A total unknown? Someone he has no relationship with? You said you would give a few more weeks, who would you hope for then? We don't know the terms of contract so maybe there is someone in mind going into next season.

[Quebec1648]

2 hours ago, IllicitFive said:

Are you wanting a GM with no loyalties to players? I would have a hard time believing there is a GM who does have "his guys".  While we may not agree with the extensions I respect the reasoning stated of knowing what financial situation you will have going forward. The young guys may not be ready yet, and bringing them up early can limit development., therefore rushing this would cause longer term issues. Moose may not have the points we like but veteran leadership is also important. Zuc numbers look really good so far. Marcus J, well, that one is bad but had to gamble on the production he had with Boldy last year, because, damn it looked good.  Hartman is well, Hartman, hot and cold (waiting for the hot maybe)

As far as you can't make those statements then fire a coach a week later..... well he did so obviously he can. Again, you can't fire the players even if it is on them, you gotta make a change and that is the card he could play. Yes the new coach is someone he worked with in the past, who would you want instead? A total unknown? Someone he has no relationship with? You said you would give a few more weeks, who would you hope for then? We don't know the terms of contract so maybe there is someone in mind going into next season.

If Guerin was planning to make a move, then he should have worded his public statements differently. Be upfront and honest with folks. Just tell the coach he is on the hot seat, and that he has a week or so to fix things, or he's fired. That is what I am getting at. Guerin acted publicly like it was all the players fault, while privately plotting to fire the coach. If Hynes was given advanced warning to prepare, then Guerin already knew Evason was going to be fired when he may the ill advised statement blaming the players and saying there was nothing the coaches could do.

[Wild4Ever]

Evason had lost the room. Most of the players had seen enough and stopped playing for him. BG saw this from the start of the season and still gave the players a way out if they wanted it. BG then adapts and hires his guy. That's how things work. Still, the tail wagged the dog on this one and I'd say both goalies and quite a few other players were in on it.
Goligoski and Merrill are NOT fine. They are atrocious defensemen and anything we've got in Iowa are far better choices, and cheaper. Goligoski 2M is off the books after this year and Merrill has 1 year left at 1.2M. They belong in the press box.

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:47 PM, Quebec1648 said:

If Guerin was planning to make a move, then he should have worded his public statements differently. Be upfront and honest with folks. Just tell the coach he is on the hot seat, and that he has a week or so to fix things, or he's fired. That is what I am getting at. Guerin acted publicly like it was all the players fault, while privately plotting to fire the coach. If Hynes was given advanced warning to prepare, then Guerin already knew Evason was going to be fired when he may the ill advised statement blaming the players and saying there was nothing the coaches could do.

Nobody does that. No GM even does that in private. They give a vote of confidence to the current regime even though they may have just hung up the phone with their replacement.

Furthermore, Guerin owes us fans nothing as far as honesty in what he's thinking. That stuff stays in the building under heavy security. There is so much fans never hear of what goes on in the building. 

It would be refreshing to hear that from a GM from a fans' perspective, but if we had one like that, he wouldn't be GM very long. You cannot tip your hand publicly. And you should know this! Look at what happened when Talbot's agent went public. Look at how displeased Guerin was when Davidson leaked that the Wild were interested in Fleury. That immediately tips you off that he doesn't say a lot of team stuff publicly. He, the players, the coaches are taught to speak in cliches. You'll never find out most stuff until after the fact, if at all.