Article: Dean Evason's Firing Was About More Than Dean Evason

[FredJohnson]

23 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I think somewhere in the margins there might be a case for playing youth vs playing vets and hopefully our new coach finds these little nuggets of opportunity whereas Evason was close-minded.

PLEASE!!!

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:48 AM, Mateo3xm said:

They are able to pick players like Point, Kuch, Cirelli and others after they had been passed over dozens of times.

These were what won them a cup, not Stamkos and Hedman. Add in a couple of very nice trades they had to shore up the defense. Plus, they had Vassy. Stamkos was a minor factor in their cup runs as he was hurt. Hedman has been a beast, I'll give you that one. 

My point is, though, that it doesn't always turn out well for the teams that are tanking either on purpose or by futility. Equally, they need luck! Edmonton and Buffalo should not just have had elite top talent, but they should have had solid secondary talent from the top of the 2nd round. Neither really got that, and Buffalo had other 1st round picks that weren't so good. That's a lot of pain!

Boston didn't build their team with a bunch of early picks. Montreal has had a lot of draft picks but little to show for it yet. AZ is a dumpster fire over and over again. 

If you draft the right guys from wherever your position is and they fit your system, you should be successful. If you just happen to hit in 2/3 draft years extremely lucky, you tend to have very good success. Hitting would be defined as 3-4 draft picks that play a significant role on your team. In recent years, we've got that opportunity, specifically if our 1s hit. 

Now, also doing it the way the Wild have done it, you are probably waiting 5 years for those guys to develop from their draft day. This is where the disconnect is, because many people are busting these players at 21-22 years old. 

There is one thing that hasn't been stressed and I think needs to be within the organization: strength addition. It doesn't happen naturally, though that can help, you've got to be dedicated early on to the gym and getting strength bulk. This league demands it!

[Mateo3xm]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:12 AM, mnfaninnc said:

These were what won them a cup, not Stamkos and Hedman.

 

“Widely considered to be one of the best defencemen in the NHL, Hedman is a five-time James Norris Memorial Trophy finalist, winning the award in 2018. Hedman won back-to-back Stanley Cups with the Lightning in 2020 and 2021, and won the Conn Smythe Trophy as the most valuable player in the 2020 playoffs.”

did you catch that Conn Smythe Trophy?

he had 22pts in 25 games in the playoffs in 2020.

Hedman didn’t play a ton of regular season games for their 2 cup runs but the bolts don’t win Stanley cups without a number 1 defenseman like him. Just about every single Stanley cup winning team has a number 1 defenseman in Hedman’s caliber.

dont tell me Hedman and Stamkos had nothing to do with it.

they absolutely did. You make yourself look goofy saying otherwise.

Stamkos had 18pts in 23 games in the 2021 playoffs.

Stamkos didn’t play a ton both those years but he still had 66pts in 57 games in 2020.

Ive always thought that Tampa is one of if not the best team in the nhl when it comes to drafting. It’s absolutely incredible how they found some of those guys but youre lying to yourself if you don’t think they benefited enormously from getting the 2nd overall pick in Hedman who in his prime was one of the best.

 

[Mateo3xm]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:12 AM, mnfaninnc said:

These were what won them a cup, not Stamkos and Hedman. Add in a couple of very nice trades they had to shore up the defense. Plus, they had Vassy. Stamkos was a minor factor in their cup runs as he was hurt. Hedman has been a beast, I'll give you that one. 

My point is, though, that it doesn't always turn out well for the teams that are tanking either on purpose or by futility. Equally, they need luck! Edmonton and Buffalo should not just have had elite top talent, but they should have had solid secondary talent from the top of the 2nd round. Neither really got that, and Buffalo had other 1st round picks that weren't so good. That's a lot of pain!

Boston didn't build their team with a bunch of early picks. Montreal has had a lot of draft picks but little to show for it yet. AZ is a dumpster fire over and over again. 

If you draft the right guys from wherever your position is and they fit your system, you should be successful. If you just happen to hit in 2/3 draft years extremely lucky, you tend to have very good success. Hitting would be defined as 3-4 draft picks that play a significant role on your team. In recent years, we've got that opportunity, specifically if our 1s hit. 

Now, also doing it the way the Wild have done it, you are probably waiting 5 years for those guys to develop from their draft day. This is where the disconnect is, because many people are busting these players at 21-22 years old. 

There is one thing that hasn't been stressed and I think needs to be within the organization: strength addition. It doesn't happen naturally, though that can help, you've got to be dedicated early on to the gym and getting strength bulk. This league demands it!

Of course it doesn’t always turn out.

theres only one team that can win.

If you dont have most of: great drafting, great management, great coaching, great trades, a big team built for the playoffs physicality, superstars or generational picks and luck, you’re not winning anything.

all those teams you listed have been notoriously badly managed that’s why it’s taken so long. That’s a given.

The point you’re trying to make is so strange to me. Of course getting picks in the top 5 isn’t everything but it’s probably one of the most consistent things I’ve seen in Cup winning teams along with exceptional drafting.

Just look at how these cup winning teams are made. Look at what they all have in common.

I’ll post some more stuff on this when I have time but 80-90% of the cup winning teams in the last 20 or so years had at least one top 1-5 pick who was a cornerstone of the team. A number 1 defenseman, Center, Goalie or winger.

if you have exceptional drafting like the Bruins and Blues then you can win one by getting lucky but that doesn’t happen often at all. If you’re banking on that you’re in for a loooong and disappointing wait.

you figure the Wild will have a good chance at winning a cup by not tanking at least for a little bit when their drafting is average or maybe a little above average?

how do you honestly figure they are going to win because I don’t see it.

Im not looking for the Wild to be a good team, im looking for the Wild to win a Stanley Cup. 

 

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:52 AM, Mateo3xm said:

dont tell me Hedman and Stamkos had nothing to do with it.

they absolutely did. You make yourself look goofy saying otherwise.

Nobody is saying they had nothing to do with it! But to say both are THE reason for the cup wins makes no sense. They were part of the solutions, but Vassy, Point, Kuch, and that 3rd line were just as responsible if not more so than those 2 players. I value Hedman, but he doesn't play all 60 minutes. He was extremely good and had more to do with the wins than Stamkos, but to say they were THE reasons isn't being honest. They don't win without the cast I mentioned, and they don't win without some of the trades they made for role players. 

[mnfaninnc]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:17 AM, Mateo3xm said:

you figure the Wild will have a good chance at winning a cup by not tanking at least for a little bit when their drafting is average or maybe a little above average?

how do you honestly figure they are going to win because I don’t see it.

Im not looking for the Wild to be a good team, im looking for the Wild to win a Stanley Cup. 

Because in the research I did a few years ago on this revealed it wasn't the top picks that put teams over the top, it was the hitting on 3-4 draft picks in a 3 year time period that did it. Hitting on the draft picks is defined as them playing a significant role on the team. 

I did not research trading for prospects in those draft years or players who made it from those draft years being added, that may be a component involved too. 

So, here is my point: It takes far more than just tanking and getting top draft picks for this to work, it takes hitting on other picks too. It's far easier to do it if you have a top pick, or if you've sold off players for 1sts and have multiple 1sts in a 3 year span, but even that is not a lock. 

The key is getting those 3-4 draft picks in the fold. For instance, in the Ek year, we had Greenway, Kahkonen and Kaprizov. If we had backed up that draft with another great draft where we could get 3-4 players, we could have really had something. But, instead, Fletcher traded off picks so we never had the chance. 

Guerin had 2 1sts in b2b years. Let's say we hit on all 4 of those, and we've got 3 more players come in with 2 drafts. That plays a more important role in developing a Stanley Cup winning team than just having a couple of top picks and missing on the rest of the draft. This is why Edmonton couldn't get ahead, and probably why Buffalo failed. I have no explanation for AZ, they're just cursed. The key is having that age group nucleus that grows up together, challenges each other and gets through some wars together. It's harder to do this, but it is possible to do it.

Within that window, having Yurov and The Wall drop out of the top selections to fall to us late and develop into superstars could be the luck we needed. Also having Lambos and Ohgren develop into stars would help. Put in our Rossi draft where Hunt, and maybe Dino come out, that's 3 drafts in a row where we'd have solid players coming out. That's the type of cluster that you need to eventually win. I found this to be the most important factor.