Article: Guerin Saw All the Cards In the Original Addison Trade and Still Folded

[Pewterschmidt]

53 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

what I didn't like was BG selling short once again. It's definitely a trend.

Yep, good call on this trend.  and BG isn't in a position to leave money on the table.  He made a choice to hamstring himself with the Parise/Suter moves so he's got to bat 1,000 on all trades/re-signings/drafts/etc.  Results are mixed in this department.  He's not shitting the bed, but he's not batting 1,000

[Pewterschmidt]

32 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Fletcher sold off his cupboards and then had nothing.

While I admired Fletcher's courage to swing for the fences (ie Todd Richards 1st timer, followed by Yeozy 1st timer, sending 1st and 2nds for Pomenville et al) the dude just never got over on his moves.  His burn rate was even faster in Philly.

[raithis]

29 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

While I admired Fletcher's courage to swing for the fences (ie Todd Richards 1st timer, followed by Yeozy 1st timer, sending 1st and 2nds for Pomenville et al) the dude just never got over on his moves.  His burn rate was even faster in Philly.

Yeah, though unfortunately he mostly swung for aging stars of yesteryear that weren't what they used to be.  Consistently mortgaging your future for now doesn't usually work out unless what you are getting carries you into the future.  Fletcher didn't get too much of that.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

2 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

What is it about Addison that warrants all this continued talk about him like he was some sort of mistreated and wronged future hockey messiah?  The guy was a late 2nd rd pick who was given the opportunity of a 1st rd pick and repeatedly failed to find the most basic level of competency of his position.  

I mean bringing up 7% body fat stinks like red herring.   Are we talking about a hockey player here or a model in a photo shoot?  

I don't get why so many people here are so invested in this guy.  He sucked.  He was given plenty of opportunity and guidance and failed to meet the basic standard.  If he is in the league next year, it will be for tanking purposes.

We got so many bigger fish to fry than the 2nd fiddle of the Zucker trade.

I'm not so down on the trade itself. It is what it is. It makes our 3rd D pair different but i doubt any better as evidenced by the 8 burger just dropped on us. 

The thing that concerns me more is the pattern of bringing in slow veterans in a time when we have an excuse to be playing more youth. I really like that we have seen more of Hunt, hoping to see some Beckman and possibly more Walker since he only got 2 games. Lettieri has earned his spot here though and played well. 

In other news our Iowa Wild are really starting to pick up steam winning 4/5 games so far in November!

[Will D. Ness]

32 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

The thing that concerns me more is the pattern of bringing in slow veterans in a time when we have an excuse to be playing more youth.

I hear this.  I think this boils down to the owner not wanting to tank or semi-tank so to say (this team has way too much talent to tank) and compete the best they can instead of dealing with learning curves, lack of size, etc.  

Personally, I would give the young guys opportunity as well.  I want to see Lambos up here, he looked good enough in preseason to be given a shot IMO and on the path to being a part of the future.

[Protec]

^^^

I think you're forced to do that as it becomes more apparent you're gonna miss the playoffs. In the first two months, I think they're looking for proof of who is gonna be there from the group. I.e. who's your team gonna be and can they make the playoffs? Then determine who to sell and who to bring up or who to add prior by March.

I wanna see a lot more from Boldy. More from Dewar and Duhaime.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Protec

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Protec said:

I wanna see a lot more from Boldy. More from Dewar and Duhaime.

I'm not worried about Boldy yet.  I think he's shown enough last season to trust he'll come back around.  Don't know if it's urgency/heart/or what but need to see it

Dewar has shown flashes (like he does) but need to see more for him to move up from 4th line

Stick fork in Duhaime.  He needs to be sent off to the Ennis/Jost/Sturm carousel of revolving journeyman

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

Personally, I would give the young guys opportunity as well.  I want to see Lambos up here, he looked good enough in preseason to be given a shot IMO and on the path to being a part of the future.

Lambos seems to be having some problems down in the A still. He scored his 1st goal, but only has 3 points. He's also a - player, so he's got some growing to do.

Anybody have eyes on the A and can verify with the eye test?

[mnfaninnc]

57 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Stick fork in Duhaime.  He needs to be sent off to the Ennis/Jost/Sturm carousel of revolving journeyman

What's wrong with Duhaime? He's playing a pretty good 4th line wing in my book.

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

What's wrong with Duhaime? He's playing a pretty good 4th line wing in my book.

He’s cheap labor for fourth line grist for the mill minutes, but his ability to make hockey plays is non existent.  And when he fights he usually gets beat up. One Foligno is one too many. We don’t need Foligno 2.0

[Will D. Ness]

7 hours ago, Protec said:

^^^

I think you're forced to do that as it becomes more apparent you're gonna miss the playoffs. In the first two months, I think they're looking for proof of who is gonna be there from the group. I.e. who's your team gonna be and can they make the playoffs? Then determine who to sell and who to bring up or who to add prior by March.

I wanna see a lot more from Boldy. More from Dewar and Duhaime.

I agree but then again we are talking about replacing Mermis.

(yeah Mermis has stepped it up but it's not like he is a rock)

[mnfaninnc]

9 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I agree but then again we are talking about replacing Mermis.

(yeah Mermis has stepped it up but it's not like he is a rock)

This is true, yet he passed Addison on the depth chart mainly because he out pointed him AND showed an interest in defending. He's not perfect, but he at least competes even though he's not the biggest guy back there.

[Up North Guy]

18 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

What's wrong with Duhaime? He's playing a pretty good 4th line wing in my book.

I would say he is not making enough hockey plays and committing too many stupid penalties. Right now, i don't think he is providing the value you need even for a 4th liner.

[Will D. Ness]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

This is true, yet he passed Addison on the depth chart mainly because he out pointed him AND showed an interest in defending. He's not perfect, but he at least competes even though he's not the biggest guy back there.

Sure but beating out Addison isn't really something to hang your hat on.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Mermis and glad he is one of the few guys on this team playing above expectations... but hypothetically speaking, does this justify not playing Lambos or Hunt or any potentially future defenseman?

(and like you said before... maybe they just aren't ready)

[mnfaninnc]

5 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

Sure but beating out Addison isn't really something to hang your hat on.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Mermis and glad he is one of the few guys on this team playing above expectations... but hypothetically speaking, does this justify not playing Lambos or Hunt or any potentially future defenseman?

(and like you said before... maybe they just aren't ready)

But it is kind of a big deal, because with the play of both Faber and Mermis, and the development of Hunt and Lambos, it made Addison completely expendable. While it doesn't really move the needle for the team, it did have Shooter reach a conclusion that Addison was what he was, he had plateaued and really wasn't going to get to an NHL defender. 

Of course, we'll see in San Jose, but I'm predicting he does not have a storied career. Oddly, there was always something that I perceived as an attitude with Addison also, like he felt like he wasn't treated fairly. Honestly, a change of scenery was likely the best for both sides. 

[Mateo3xm]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:10 AM, mnfaninnc said:

He had some nice attributes, but it never seemed like he could put it all together.

On the flip side, CA hasn’t even played 100 nhl games nor played a full season yet.

hes 23. Most nhl players hit their peak between ages 24-26 and that gets pushed back farther for defenders.

I completely understand the size thing but it’s a bit early to judge if he can put it all together.

Brodin and Faber are not the norm. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

15 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

But it is kind of a big deal, because with the play of both Faber and Mermis, and the development of Hunt and Lambos, it made Addison completely expendable. While it doesn't really move the needle for the team, it did have Shooter reach a conclusion that Addison was what he was, he had plateaued and really wasn't going to get to an NHL defender. 

Of course, we'll see in San Jose, but I'm predicting he does not have a storied career. Oddly, there was always something that I perceived as an attitude with Addison also, like he felt like he wasn't treated fairly. Honestly, a change of scenery was likely the best for both sides. 

Not sure how much of a litmus test San Jose will be when the whole team is a rolling dumpster fire.

[mnfaninnc]

57 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Not sure how much of a litmus test San Jose will be when the whole team is a rolling dumpster fire.

We'll just see if he's useful. If he shows something, he's probably trade bait at the deadline.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

We'll just see if he's useful. If he shows something, he's probably trade bait at the deadline.

Hopefully he can get traded to a team that has some glimmer of hope lol

[Up North Guy]

12 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

On the flip side, CA hasn’t even played 100 nhl games nor played a full season yet.

hes 23. Most nhl players hit their peak between ages 24-26 and that gets pushed back farther for defenders.

I completely understand the size thing but it’s a bit early to judge if he can put it all together.

Brodin and Faber are not the norm. 

I don't believe it is just the size thing. I think it is an attitude thing. Sure he gout muscled a lot. It happens when you are that much smaller. What I saw (or didn't see) was CA actually jumping in and getting his nose dirty. I didn't see blocked shots. I didn't see sound positional hockey. Being a defenseman is actually more about positioning than muscling. Take away lanes. Take away redirects and rebounds. That just wasn't there in my view.

[mnfaninnc]

22 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

I don't believe it is just the size thing. I think it is an attitude thing. Sure he gout muscled a lot. It happens when you are that much smaller. What I saw (or didn't see) was CA actually jumping in and getting his nose dirty. I didn't see blocked shots. I didn't see sound positional hockey. Being a defenseman is actually more about positioning than muscling. Take away lanes. Take away redirects and rebounds. That just wasn't there in my view.

You're right, we didn't see any of that. But taking away lanes, taking away redirects, boxing out for rebounds all require strength to neutralize the opposition. I wasn't looking for strength to throw bomb hits, I was looking for strength to merely compete. He didn't have it and constantly got outmuscled in close. And, he didn't have a very strong stick. All those things are required and things he either can't do or was unwilling to do.