Article: The Wild Are Starting To Look Like the Team Bill Guerin Blew Up

[vonlonster67]

43 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

I'm not going to argue Guerin's a bad GM or that he should be fired or anything, but that doesn't strike me as a terribly honest list of his flaws. Just off the top of my head.

1. Signing Alex Goligoski to a bad two-year extension. Wild have no flexibility this season in part because their 7th defenseman is soaking up $2.5 million.
2. The only reason they dumped Greenway is because they signed him to a three-year extension in the first place, only to flip him at the low point of his value.
3. Losing Fiala is as much as a minus as a plus to me, personally. Had a dynamic team with loads of offense, couldn't suck it up and his team immediately goes from top-five in offense to bottom-ten. His contracts to replace him (Greenway, Jost, Steel) mostly flamed out.
4. Constantly rejecting any sort of upside for the playoffs. Not using Boldy in 2021 against Vegas, even with injuries. Not having a single game where Kaprizov/Fiala/Rossi/Boldy are in a lineup in 2022. Not playing Rossi last year even after Ek got hurt.
5. Poor handling of Rossi in general in favor of tired old center options that haven't gotten it done.
6. Five year extension for Freddy Gaudreau that no one else on earth would have signed. 
7. John Klingberg wasn't expensive, but tanking their power play in the playoffs to make a point to Calen Addison fizzled.
8. Blocking his own rebuild with contracts to mid-30s guys in Zuccarello and Foligno

 

And from the "Remains to Be Seen" category:
1. How bad is this Hartman extension going to be?
2. If His Team doesn't win, how good is it going to look sticking with a coach that hasn't won a playoff series since he was in Juniors?
3. The Kaprizov contract situation. If Guerin bites the bullet and gives Kaprizov 10-11 million, it sounds like he signs an 8-year deal. Instead, he gives him a five-year deal that gives him the power to pick his spot, should he want to, in Year 4 (next year!). 

Disagree.....

1. Goose is making $2M/yr and this is fall out when we didn't have any other options on D and cap options after the $5M
2. Greenway? You kiddin? He priced him self out of town due to effort.
3. Fiala?? You really want to sacrifice half the team and lose Boldy.
4. DE...Boldy turned out just fine without that pressure and Rossi same
5. DE....but again Rossi determined his fate every time he stepped on the ice
6. Freddy is the mentor and smooth out for Rossi and looks like a steal with what they paid Moose
7. Klingberg was a flyer and a nothing deal, you really think Addy could have got us to playoffs and beyond. Addy controlled his own stubborn fate.
8. No one is ready to replace Zucc this year BG gets competition next year, Moose no one to replace his size and Hartzy is owed more for what he's done and is 29 worth a 3yr try and support on 4th line.

Remaining:

1. At least we know we'll have Hartzy to replace a 4th line spot
2. Sticking with DE this year doesn't impact anything
3. KK will sign with the Wild but no way at $10-11M...try $15M X 5

[vonlonster67]

46 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

You still haven't learned have you Tony.

Those are ALL on Deano.

Repeat after me, everything bad Deano, everything good BG.

This is a more accurate statement in regard to who impacted what...DE

[Willy the poor boy]

58 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

You still haven't learned have you Tony.

Those are ALL on Deano.

Repeat after me, everything bad Deano, everything good BG.

 

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

I'm not going to argue Guerin's a bad GM or that he should be fired or anything, but that doesn't strike me as a terribly honest list of his flaws. Just off the top of my head.

1. Signing Alex Goligoski to a bad two-year extension. Wild have no flexibility this season in part because their 7th defenseman is soaking up $2.5 million.
2. The only reason they dumped Greenway is because they signed him to a three-year extension in the first place, only to flip him at the low point of his value.
3. Losing Fiala is as much as a minus as a plus to me, personally. Had a dynamic team with loads of offense, couldn't suck it up and his team immediately goes from top-five in offense to bottom-ten. His contracts to replace him (Greenway, Jost, Steel) mostly flamed out.
4. Constantly rejecting any sort of upside for the playoffs. Not using Boldy in 2021 against Vegas, even with injuries. Not having a single game where Kaprizov/Fiala/Rossi/Boldy are in a lineup in 2022. Not playing Rossi last year even after Ek got hurt.
5. Poor handling of Rossi in general in favor of tired old center options that haven't gotten it done.
6. Five year extension for Freddy Gaudreau that no one else on earth would have signed. 
7. John Klingberg wasn't expensive, but tanking their power play in the playoffs to make a point to Calen Addison fizzled.
8. Blocking his own rebuild with contracts to mid-30s guys in Zuccarello and Foligno

 

And from the "Remains to Be Seen" category:
1. How bad is this Hartman extension going to be?
2. If His Team doesn't win, how good is it going to look sticking with a coach that hasn't won a playoff series since he was in Juniors?
3. The Kaprizov contract situation. If Guerin bites the bullet and gives Kaprizov 10-11 million, it sounds like he signs an 8-year deal. Instead, he gives him a five-year deal that gives him the power to pick his spot, should he want to, in Year 4 (next year!). 

This is a more accurate statement in regard to who impacted what...DE

 

See!

[vonlonster67]

2 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

 

This is a more accurate statement in regard to who impacted what...DE

 

See!

Not in the positive, sorry.....

[Tony Abbott]

I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

[Protec]

I’m liking the Wild’s chances this year.

[Willy the poor boy]

1 hour ago, vonlonster67 said:

Not in the positive, sorry.....

Oh, I know what you meant.

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

DE is a temporary fix, as BG says, if I can make the team better. I will

BG cant be on the bench for DE's lacking. They may be on the same page but DE needs to execute, adjust and adapt; not his strong suit.

BG is smart enough to not upset the applecart too soon based on direction.

[M_Nels]

18 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

I don't know how Dean Evason can be cast as a fall guy when it seems that Guerin's endorsed every decision, given all of his toys long-term extensions, and has Evason in town for two more years. They're on the same page. 

Billy and Dean can be on the same page, that's what makes a coach/GM relationship work. You don't want your GM publicly denouncing your coach or publicly questioning his decisions. The discussions going on behind the scenes or how Billy actually feels about DE is something none of us will know. Coaches get fired midst contract all the time. 

That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win.

[Willy the poor boy]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Billy and Dean can be on the same page, that's what makes a coach/GM relationship work. You don't want your GM publicly denouncing your coach or publicly questioning his decisions. The discussions going on behind the scenes or how Billy actually feels about DE is something none of us will know. Coaches get fired midst contract all the time. 

That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win.

Which is EXACTLY what they've been doing.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:51 AM, Willy the poor boy said:

Which is EXACTLY what they've been doing.

Is a first round loss every year winning? What does the regular season success mean if we habitually tank in playoffs year after year. Doesn't running the same roster, a year older, and expecting different results seem like insanity? 

We doubled down on last year's mistakes and I don't see us being close to cup this year. To extend those same players and not try to inject some form of youth is a losing formula.

[Willy the poor boy]

8 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Is a first round loss every year winning? What does the regular season success mean if we habitually tank in playoffs year after year. Doesn't running the same roster, a year older, and expecting different results seem like insanity? 

We doubled down on last year's mistakes and I don't see us being close to cup this year. To extend those same players and not try to inject some form of youth is a losing formula.

I didn't point it out in that post, but my response was to this line in particular: "That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win."

I think they've out performed every year DE has been coach. The common line is they haven't moved past the 1'st round, but I bet I could pull posts from everyone that says that, where at the beginning of the season, they would be saying it's doubtful they can even make the playoffs. Then they get there and they're supposed to win.

They outplayed Dallas, but ran into a hot goaltender. That's not unusual in the playoffs.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

15 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

I didn't point it out in that post, but my response was to this line in particular: "That being said, it is on Dean to execute. The same vision can be shared between coach and GM but ultimately it is on the coaching staff to execute and win."

I think they've out performed every year DE has been coach. The common line is they haven't moved past the 1'st round, but I bet I could pull posts from everyone that says that, where at the beginning of the season, they would be saying it's doubtful they can even make the playoffs. Then they get there and they're supposed to win.

They outplayed Dallas, but ran into a hot goaltender. That's not unusual in the playoffs.

2020- Knocked out by Vancouver 1-3 Record, 2021 Knocked out by Vegas 3-4 record, 2022 Knocked out by the Blues 2-4 record, 2023 Knocked out by Dallas 2-4 record. 

Don't act like this has been only one year that Dean has coached here. He has a proven record of losing playoff series in the NHL and AHL. Don't play it off like it was a single hot goalie that knocked us out the past 4 years. They did not outplay Dallas, hot goalie or not. 

Most of us didn't have the expectation of playoffs because we expected an on the fly rebuild, not building at the deadline like we were a contender. As stated in Tony's most recent article, that is not what we have seen. 

[Willy the poor boy]

19 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

2020- Knocked out by Vancouver 1-3 Record, 2021 Knocked out by Vegas 3-4 record, 2022 Knocked out by the Blues 2-4 record, 2023 Knocked out by Dallas 2-4 record. 

Don't act like this has been only one year that Dean has coached here. He has a proven record of losing playoff series in the NHL and AHL. Don't play it off like it was a single hot goalie that knocked us out the past 4 years. They did not outplay Dallas, hot goalie or not. 

Most of us didn't have the expectation of playoffs because we expected an on the fly rebuild, not building at the deadline like we were a contender. As stated in Tony's most recent article, that is not what we have seen. 

They certainly did outplay them. The Blues series was lost because DE had to play Flower to support BG's decision to trade for him.

2020 was Covid, it was anyone's guess as to how that whole playoff scenario would play out. They took Vegas who had tons more talent to 7 games.

If anyone is playing anything off it's you. They are far behind the 8 ball in talent. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

2 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

They certainly did outplay them. The Blues series was lost because DE had to play Flower to support BG's decision to trade for him.

Tell that to the -12 overall plus/minus rating for our team and the -7 goal differential. 3 of the games we were defeated by 3 goals or more. Those aren't close games. Couple that with them getting under our skin and us taking 121 penalty mins and it looks pretty grim. We can talk about the hypothetical of what if so and so wasn't injured all day but we were soundly defeated by the Stars.

As for the goalie choices, this isn't politics. I don't care how it would look to the public, you run the hotter goaltender. Guerin said himself "this is about f**king winning". I think he'd forgive Evason if it got us to the second round.

2 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

If anyone is playing anything off it's you. They are far behind the 8 ball in talent. 

Yeah, we have a cap hit and that hurts but I am not playing off anything. Stats don't lie when it comes to our post season record.

[Quebec1648]

Guerin is basically switching Fletchers old players for new old players, albeit ones Guerin picks. I supported keeping Zuccarello, but giving four years to foligno was a mistake. Guerin has allowed Brackett to draft a lot of young talent, but has been very hesitant to give them a pathway to the NHL.

The Wild need a balance of young and old, so maybe 4 older forwards, 4 younger ones and 4 in between. Same for defenseman, 2 older, 2 younger and 2 in the middle. Keep Brodin and Spurgeon as the older defenseman, and then give the other for spots to younger guys. 

[FredJohnson]

On 10/2/2023 at 10:12 PM, vonlonster67 said:

What else has he done that's been so terrible? 

1. Sign KK out of Russia AND extend him after initial contract?
2. Clean house of the past regime and actually make legitimate trades: Zucker for Addison/Lambos; Kunin for Bonino/Khusnutdinov
3. Buyout Parise/Suter and save the franchise of 7 more years of cap heist toil
4. Change the culture and expectations of the Wild
5. Trade Fiala for Faber/Öhgren draft pick and then use our pick to take Yurov 
6. Trade for Middy and dumping a goalie who is never gonna make it in the NHL (Kahkonen)
7. Trade up for a franchise goalie in Wallstedt
8. Sign Hartman to 3yr $1.75M/yr. deal
9. Sign Ek to a team friendly contract for 8 years
10. Sign Boldy to a cost savings contract to 7 years
11. Trade Talbot for Gustavsson and develop a starting goalie
12. Dump Greenway for a legitimate 2nd round pick in Riley Heidt.
13. McBain traded to Arizona for a 2nd for Hunter Haight
14. Sign Sammy Walker as a UFA
15. Trade nothing for late season additions to keep us afloat in the playoff rounds. Fleury; Middleton; Reaves; Nyquist; Johannsson

 

1.  SIGN MARCUS FOLIGNO TO A $4M/4YR DEAL - TERRIBLE

Well besides that...nothing! (Sarcasm)