Article: How Does Adam Beckman Fit In With the Wild?

[Velgey]

11 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

This is one reason why I have little understanding as to why some of these younger kids haven't bulked up more. Do they not realize just how strong these NHLers are?

Not a Wild player, but remember when Casey Mittelstadt couldn't do a single pullup during the combine? That really surprised me that a player that was clearly heading to the NHL wouldn't have been better prepared for a known test of strength.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

12 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

So, what now? Is Evason going to actually look in their direction? They'll need to be extremely impressive to gain just his interest. It can be a little frustrating, but an established guy is an established guy and a rookie is a rookie. Established guys get more trust.

So let's take a look at a snapshot of Freddy, who just resigned with us for another 5 years at a reasonable 2.1M. I understand I am cherry picking stats here, but from 01-19 to 02-17 this year- 12GP, 1 Assist, -4 Rating , 16:13 ATOI. Literally a worse skid than Beckman's entire showing in 2 years yet no hesitation to continually play him every night but for a rookie, that isn't enough playing better than that. Beckman had far better possession metrics, same amount of shots and better +/- over his showing and is over 1M cheaper.

This is where I say there is clearly two sets of standards. For Gaudreau to have a skid consistently playing in the NHL that is worse than a guy literally being called up at random times in the year without the NHL experience and yet we still say we need them to earn that spot.  Gaudreau was playing 16 mins a night, Beckman was playing 10 mins a night with the same stat line but somehow we justify not putting Gaudreau on the bench for a call-up in that time? What about Foligno's skid from 03-11 to 04-17? 12GP 1A 0G -5 14:26 ATOI and !!42 mins of penalties!! Still was not sat down for a call up. I see this as an issue in coaching contributing to the lack of development in our prospect pool. When a guy is not holding his weight, why not try a call-up instead of having our lines and roster scribed in stone.

I get guys need to earn their spot MNfan. We need to give them those opportunities while parts of our full time roster are shitting in beds and we are not doing that. We have a 13th man spot for a reason and after the TDL we can keep as many as we want up. We need to start using it to our advantage instead of attempting to cudgel our way to playoffs with the same line pairings, same rigid strategy and same old mantra. It is little surprise we get figured out and countered as soon as we get in playoffs. We have no tricks up our sleeve and no adaptations to make up because we haven't tried another player or line pairing all year. When injuries come, we have no answers and those injuries will come when you continue to play the same roster and don't give beat up players a rest. I would venture as far as to say it is the reason DE has never won a playoff series in his professional career. He is so easy to predict and I've seen grass grow faster than he adapts.

[CoolHandL]

20 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Beckman has showed up every single time he was called up for the Wild. Looking at articles about Army and prospects, he sure seems to take the coaches requests to heart and makes good strides toward them.

One of my (oft aired) complaints is we are letting players like Beckman and Walker wither on the vine down in IA. We are too fond of backfilling with vets and rarely give our kids a shot at the show.

These are the guys we should be focusing on giving time to get their feet under them if we want to make a run in Kap's contract time and I just don't see them getting it. The constant win now attitude is passing up a huge opportunity to get our prospects a taste. Guerin's fondness for veterans won't serve us well in 2-3 years when we need these kids ready and up to speed.

Beckman's last 15 AHL games he had 14pts, he is a shoot-first prospect in a system full of playmakers. He fits well with our identity and plays a physical two way game. There is zero reason we shouldn't be giving him 10-20 NHL games this year, even if it means a carousel of prospects filling that 12th spot all getting their shot. I hope BG leaves room for the kids to come up soon as we are quickly running out of runway.  

I definitely see him as a potential Marcus Foligno replacement down the road, whether that is after this season or in a few seasons.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Beckman and Sammy Walker need to be ready because even if they don't break camp with the Wild, it would be shocking for no forwards to miss any time during the year.

Hopefully both are ready when they get the call. Beckman should be ready to step into an NHL role within the next year. If the young guys are pushing hard enough that they deserve to be up, I don't doubt that Guerin would open up a roster spot by trading a veteran or letting them walk in free agency, but young guys need to show they belong first.

They are competing with Rossi as well. If the other guys are delivering at a higher skill/compete level, Gaudreau can center that 3rd line and Rossi could be back in Iowa. The competition should make them all stronger.

[Luke Sims]

19 hours ago, TCMooch said:

If he was truly that good, the team would happily make room for him.

Come on now

[Luke Sims]

13 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Beckman and Sammy Walker need to be ready because even if they don't break camp with the Wild, it would be shocking for no forwards to miss any time during the year.

Hopefully both are ready when they get the call. Beckman should be ready to step into an NHL role within the next year. If the young guys are pushing hard enough that they deserve to be up, I don't doubt that Guerin would open up a roster spot by trading a veteran or letting them walk in free agency, but young guys need to show they belong first.

They are competing with Rossi as well. If the other guys are delivering at a higher skill/compete level, Gaudreau can center that 3rd line and Rossi could be back in Iowa. The competition should make them all stronger.

They will be.

[Luke Sims]

20 minutes ago, CoolHandL said:

I definitely see him as a potential Marcus Foligno replacement down the road, whether that is after this season or in a few seasons.

Beckman certainly brings the energy. Just may not be the donnybrooker that Foligno is.

[Luke Sims]

Beckman is just so darn fun.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Velgey said:

I think you're probably right about this being Evason's perspective, but I think it's the wrong approach for this coming season and next with the dead cap. The Wild aren't winning the Cup, probably aren't even a realistic threat to reach the WCF while missing out on $15 million. So focusing on nothing else but winning is missing a great opportunity to develop the prospects that are ready to take the next step and learn in the NHL.

Will Beckman, Walker, or Shaw make some mistakes that Johannson or Maroon wouldn't? Probably yes. Will those mistakes result in some extra loses over the course of the season. Also probably yes. But so what? If the Wild aren't going to be competitive for the ultimate prize, then it is a mistake to act like a team where winning this year is all that matters.

I'm not suggesting the Wild tank or adopt an attitutde of winning doesn't matter. I'm suggesting that Evason should be prioritizing identifying and developing the prospects that reached the point where more time in the AHL is not useful. Get those players in the lineup and then try like hell to win with them getting necessary experience.

We do agree on these points. However, the guy who really matters, OCL, does not. He takes pride in playoff invitations, and to some extent he's not wrong. You will never get a Stanley Cup if you're not invited to the final 16. That is step 1. Maybe someday we get a favorable matchup? Or a team that sliding because of multiple injuries?

To me, the $15m is less of an issue. That forces an organization to use value oriented labor. I just wish they would take advantage of ELCs a little better. In fairness to Evason, he is fighting to keep his job and get another extension. To me, I feel we need a change there. He's been excellent in the regular season, but he gets owned in playoff series. At some point, you'd think when you have a choice between A and B, you'd pick the right one. His choices always tend to be the wrong selection.

[UncleWalt]

Guys, can’t we all be right? Five of the 12 Fs are UFA this year. Only Freddy Hockey played the full 82 last year. Jost and Steel are gone. There are going to be spots in the top-6 and the bottom-6 for new guys to make their name. I think the plan is clear. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I understand I am cherry picking stats here, but from 01-19 to 02-17 this year- 12GP, 1 Assist, -4 Rating , 16:13 ATOI. Literally a worse skid than Beckman's entire showing in 2 years yet no hesitation to continually play him every night but for a rookie, that isn't enough playing better than that. Beckman had far better possession metrics, same amount of shots and better +/- over his showing and is over 1M cheaper.

Just out of curiosity, with those stats, was Gaudreau successful in any shootouts during that time? It wouldn't show up on the stat sheet, but it may explain why you wouldn't take him out of the lineup. 

I like the point and I wouldn't expect anything to change this year since we are hard up against the cap. We had a little cap space last season, and we did get some of the kids into games late in the season when the team was beat up. I realize allowed roster is 23, but we tend to run with 22 most of the year to save that extra $1m. 

As for the Foligno example, he was ice cold pretty much all year. He did some other things that don't show up on the stat sheet. I'm not sure how he accumulated the 42 PIMs, but that sounds like a 10 or two were in the mix along with fighting majors.

I never mind racking up PIMs if they're earned. What I can't stand are the little hooks, trips, high sticking accidents that look so ticky tack, and happen in no danger zone.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

50 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Just out of curiosity, with those stats, was Gaudreau successful in any shootouts during that time? It wouldn't show up on the stat sheet, but it may explain why you wouldn't take him out of the lineup. 

Only one shootout in that time that we lost. He did have definite value in many shootouts last year though.

52 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

As for the Foligno example, he was ice cold pretty much all year. He did some other things that don't show up on the stat sheet. I'm not sure how he accumulated the 42 PIMs, but that sounds like a 10 or two were in the mix along with fighting majors.

He had a 17 and a 10 in the last two games. Along with 5 minors and a major.

I get that Foligno's value is far more than what shows on the stat sheet. He racked up 47 hits in that same span. He was also suppose to stay on the ice with the acquisition of Reaves which never did pan out. These are acceptable stats for a forth line grinder, not so much for a guy getting 14 ATOI.

 

All this was to simply demonstrate the double standard that we expect of the rookies to the existing line up, in saying Evason keeps the bar waaay too high to displace these vets that we like to stack our team with and I don't believe it is going to be beneficial for us over the next few years. We are bursting at the seams in Iowa and that backup is only going to continue as the next couple years progress. Not all will work out but we need to have room for the ones that do and I continually see us needing to offload contracts to make room which usually ends up being a low sale and trading prospects that haven't even been given a shot is a sure way to have huge regrets in the future.

[vonlonster67]

3 hours ago, Velgey said:

Not a Wild player, but remember when Casey Mittelstadt couldn't do a single pullup during the combine? That really surprised me that a player that was clearly heading to the NHL wouldn't have been better prepared for a known test of strength.

It's not always about bulk or say an individual focus such as a pull up

It has several variables such as their position they play, core strengths, flexibility, speed, body chemistry, weight/height. The team's approach also impacts what is needed.

Not all teams buy into 6-4 235lb players, ya need a mix and the ability to adapt.  Fitness and strength are needed, but not at the sacrifice of speed, flexibility and recovery from play and injuries. Everyone is built differently and a trainer, dietician and a chef are valued assets of any athlete. 

 

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Luke Sims said:

Come on now

Agreed, silly to move on now.

We're so close on Beck. If anyone has paid attention, he is in a different category now in his (mnfaninnc) bulk and hasn't lost his versatility, speed or changed his shot.

Our patients with him is paramount as we've seen no regression. 

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, Luke Sims said:

Beckman is just so darn fun.

I love his off ice quirky vocal style. He's intense, but not to the point of "cocky", just real.

[vonlonster67]

2 hours ago, CoolHandL said:

I definitely see him as a potential Marcus Foligno replacement down the road, whether that is after this season or in a few seasons.

He's Foligno X3 on offense and still a work in progress on defence, but a zero factor for fighting.

He is not afraid to mix it up on the boards.  I could see him drop the gloves, but not on a regular basis.

[vonlonster67]

34 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

He's Foligno X3 on offense and still a work in progress on defence, but a zero factor for fighting.

He is not afraid to mix it up on the boards.  I could see him drop the gloves, but not on a regular basis.

Example #1

 

[Quebec1648]

5 hours ago, Velgey said:

I hope not. Why mortgage the future for the present team that is stuck as a one-and-done playoff team?

The Wild have been stockpiling prospects and won't have room for all of them. Even if you let all the veterans leave, you would still not have roster space for every player they draft. Therefore, some players will be forced to go elsewhere. 

The NHL roster is only 23 players, but the draft is 7 rounds. The league should downsize the draft to 5 rounds. 

[Velgey]

2 minutes ago, Quebec1648 said:

The Wild have been stockpiling prospects and won't have room for all of them.

I agree that the Wild ultimately won't have room for all the players currently in the prospect pool. But right now, there's just a few looking to maybe make the jump. I think there could be sufficient space for them if the Wild wanted to free up the space. By next season though, you're right, the Wild won't have the roster space and some of these guys will either be moved elsewhere or stay in the A.

[Velgey]

1 hour ago, vonlonster67 said:

It's not always about bulk or say an individual focus such as a pull up

I don't disagree with anything in your post, but any world-class athlete should be able to complete a single pullup. Granted, most men are not their strongest selves at 18. He can probably crank out several now. 

[Velgey]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

To me, the $15m is less of an issue. That forces an organization to use value oriented labor. I just wish they would take advantage of ELCs a little better.

Maybe DE and BG are playing three dimensional chess, deliberately holding these prospects down at the AHL so other teams can't get the book on them. They'll spring the new look Wild on the league in 2025-26 and catch everybody flatfooted!

That's a great point about OCL. He definitely gets a vote, maybe even two.

[vonlonster67]

53 minutes ago, Velgey said:

I don't disagree with anything in your post, but any world-class athlete should be able to complete a single pullup. Granted, most men are not their strongest selves at 18. He can probably crank out several now. 

He's definitely not disappointed,  I'd love to have him on the Wild

[vonlonster67]

7 hours ago, Velgey said:

Will Beckman, Walker, or Shaw make some mistakes that Johannson or Maroon wouldn't? Probably yes. .

Beck and Sammy are very sound in their game and IMO they don't make mistakes that are that glaring. Shaw will be in recovery mode 2nd half season (hopefully). I don't want to sacrifice JoJo's chemistry with Boldy and EEK to find out.

Maybe replace Rossi on the third line if it doesn't work out. Their upside should be solid play and only thing would be the matchups they see in a 200ft game.

[vonlonster67]

6 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

So let's take a look at a snapshot of Freddy, who just resigned with us for another 5 years at a reasonable 2.1M. I understand I am cherry picking stats here, but from 01-19 to 02-17 this year- 12GP, 1 Assist, -4 Rating , 16:13 ATOI. Literally a worse skid than Beckman's entire showing in 2 years yet no hesitation to continually play him every night but for a rookie, that isn't enough playing better than that. Beckman had far better possession metrics, same amount of shots and better +/- over his showing and is over 1M cheaper.

This is where I say there is clearly two sets of standards. For Gaudreau to have a skid consistently playing in the NHL that is worse than a guy literally being called up at random times in the year without the NHL experience and yet we still say we need them to earn that spot.  Gaudreau was playing 16 mins a night, Beckman was playing 10 mins a night with the same stat line but somehow we justify not putting Gaudreau on the bench for a call-up in that time? What about Foligno's skid from 03-11 to 04-17? 12GP 1A 0G -5 14:26 ATOI and !!42 mins of penalties!! Still was not sat down for a call up. I see this as an issue in coaching contributing to the lack of development in our prospect pool. When a guy is not holding his weight, why not try a call-up instead of having our lines and roster scribed in stone.

I get guys need to earn their spot MNfan. We need to give them those opportunities while parts of our full time roster are shitting in beds and we are not doing that. We have a 13th man spot for a reason and after the TDL we can keep as many as we want up. We need to start using it to our advantage instead of attempting to cudgel our way to playoffs with the same line pairings, same rigid strategy and same old mantra. It is little surprise we get figured out and countered as soon as we get in playoffs. We have no tricks up our sleeve and no adaptations to make up because we haven't tried another player or line pairing all year. When injuries come, we have no answers and those injuries will come when you continue to play the same roster and don't give beat up players a rest. I would venture as far as to say it is the reason DE has never won a playoff series in his professional career. He is so easy to predict and I've seen grass grow faster than he adapts.

I see what your saying Goose, but Freddy does so many little things and stats are based on where Freddy plays and with who.

He's been thrown on three lines and still keeps surviving the chaos. When you don't hear Freddy's name during a game, its good for the most part. His shootout skills are bonus that your replacements cant provide. Additionally, his vision and defensive game shows his experience and a safety net for his linemates.

I'd like to try Beckman and Freddy together on a line with Rossi and we could experiment.   

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, Velgey said:

They'll spring the new look Wild on the league in 2025-26 and catch everybody flatfooted!

I sure hope they don't wait that long.  It usually takes the young guys a couple of years to get acclimated. I think where we keep an eye on things is when the 3 Euro's come over expecting to make the team.