Article: Should the Wild Be Thinking About A Ryan Hartman Extension?

[Brevan Bane]

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[mnfaninnc]

Let's be perfectly honest, after 1 year, Hartman outperformed his 3 year deal. Each point should be considered house money now. Hartman is gritty, and he plays through injuries. 

But, at the same time, you cannot roadblock what's coming over from Europe and moving up from Iowa. Hartman has earned a contract extension for a much higher dollar figure. I just don't believe it's here, and that's the sad thing. He took less money to be here, specifically, because he said he felt he had found a home. 

Now, with the transition being even closer, I'm going to look for Guerin to show some loyalty to the player. No, not in a juicy contract, but possibly finding him a good fit on another club. Maybe it comes at the deadline, maybe it's simply a high recommendation in the offseason.

The time has come to start counting roster spots. We'll have guys ready to move up, but now they need opportunity. Generally, opportunity comes in the form of injury to a veteran, but our problem is that we simply have too many players needing opportunity. 

I've liked the way Hartman plays, but I think as we move into a more high flying type of team, he'll be one of the collateral damage players who just aren't the right fit anymore. 3 roster spots will be required in the forwards alone next season, maybe even as many as 5. That's a lot of turnover. There'll probably be a couple on defense too, and 1 in net. We have the possibility of playing 8 rookies in '24! That's a lot!

[Lern2spell]

Not saying it's a must, but Wild should definitely be thinking about an extension for him. He is only 28, wants to win here, plays with grit, can play up and down the line-up, and has already proven to be legitimate scoring threat. If the prospects turn out to live up to the hype (highly unlikely for all), ELC's will abound throughout the roster for a few years, allowing a take on a fairly decent contract. If more than a few of the youngsters turn into the proverbial 'busts', his veteran presence and versatility would be even more welcomed. If he is willing to accept a full-time bottom six role (quintessential 3rd line player IMO), and knowing he would get part-time top 6 minutes when available, that would be ideal...but if he is looking to maximize his next contract and get a payday, the Wild should thank him for his time here, and part ways.

[Killer Coastie]

I have said it before, Hartman belongs on the third line with Gaudreau and Foligno. That would be a serious grind line that could check the best lines in the league. Whatever offense they generate is pure gravy on top. Give Rossi a bonafide chance as a top 6 center. By the trade deadline, GMBG will know whether Rossi sinks or swims. Guerin can dangle Hartman (and Rossi) for trade bait and capture whatever the market dictates, which is usually a higher value than in the offseason. Other players within the Wild developmental system need to step up into a clear pathway for success. This is not exactly a bad situation for the Wild. Hartman is an asset that can bring value down the road. It is unfortunate that it will probably end with Hartman in a different sweater though.

[Protec]

It's a good problem to have. Hartman has some flaws but mostly nice qualities. He's not too old but has over 500 NHL games. In my book, rookies can compete with the production perhaps but how completely can they replace a guy like Hartman. The Wild's current situation is perfect. There's players on deck and in the hole. If Hartman is with good guys who can create, I think he's a dangerous scoring threat. His sandpaper element helps on a line with pure skill guys. As a bottom six grinder, I don't know if you get the most with him. A contract like his current one makes sense for that player not a top six 60+ point guy. Having him with Kaprizov and the Norwegian Hobbit again this year is setting Hartman up for a bigger payday. What will Guerin and Dean do about this? Total catch-22. If Hartman was kept down the lineup his production and raise might be less. What helps the team most however might make Hartman the most unaffordable guy to extend?

Haha. I like Hartman. He brings everything the Wild say they want in a player, minus the reckless penalties. I hope he has a great year and the Wild keep a place for him. I think they have to because you CANNOT bank on prospects to replace guys with age and experience. The Wild will have a harder time replacing a Swiss-Army knife guy like Hartman than a skill guy like Zuccarello or heavy-hitter like Foligno. That might not be the only factor I realize, but I think Guerin should sign Hartman before too late in the season and prior to him having a chance to put up good numbers. That way you can get him cheaper without making it look like you're trying to get the best of him. Rather a fair deal is reached early and it sends a message the Wild want to keep him. 28 is not too old. Hartman versatility is valuable.

If the Wild didn't sign Hartman, I could totally see him end up in Colorado, Nashville, or Dallas, delivering grizzle to the Excel while MN fans wonder if Rossi can grow a playoff beard and if the rookies can stand up for themselves.   

[MNCountryLife]

If Guerin is satisfied with what his prospects and younger players do this season, he can let Hartman go. But if Guerin doesn’t think he’s seen enough and remains committed to a win-now attitude, he must make Hartman a competitive offer. Either way, Ryan Hartman is playing for big money and knows the only way is to earn it.

Quoted from Article.  I think this is spot on by Bane.  The Wild need money but want to stay competitive. That could be the deciding factor by BG.

[vonlonster67]

Hartman is here to stay and BG will make sure he doesn't walk.

At 28 yoa, he is the ideal target to resign and now has roots here to stay with his MN born wife. He'll sign a team friendly contract. Ryan's already been exposed to the three team shuffle before his first Wild contract and found somewhere he likes and belongs and not too far from where he grew up in Chi-town.

He'll resign a glue/grit Wild identity deal for 3 yr deal @ $2.75/yr and move to the third line not with Foligno, but with Duhaime, and Freddy.

 

[Protec]

I think Hartman is a perfect player to keep for the purpose of being linemates with young developers like Knudi, Stramel, Ohgren, Yurov, Beckman type guys. On the ice, you want that balance. The Wild's prospects require linemate balance. Hartman is that guy because of his versatility more than Zuccarello or Foligno. When you consider his cost and scoring, I would think he's a favorite to get an extension offer and raise. 

[PNW Wild]

A Hartman extension would be wise because of all the young talent coming up. He is as versatile as they come. He has shown the ability to play up in the lineup and down in the lineup, wing and center. That can allow the younger players to come in and find themselves and he can move up or down depending on how the transition is going. That is if he does sign another team friendly deal. 

[vonlonster67]

1 hour ago, PNW Wild said:

A Hartman extension would be wise because of all the young talent coming up. He is as versatile as they come. He has shown the ability to play up in the lineup and down in the lineup, wing and center. That can allow the younger players to come in and find themselves and he can move up or down depending on how the transition is going. That is if he does sign another team friendly deal. 

PNW you are right on the money and Hartzy will do the right thing when it's time!

[Quebec1648]

I don't know if the Wild have the cap flexibility to keep Hartman and obtain a quality top line center next off-season, but they should try. I think a 3 year $9 million offer would be fair, given the value he provides, and the very team friendly deal he previously signed. 

Hartman should not block or replace any of the youngsters, but given his story and pathway to the NHL, he would be perfect to replace Foligno as a leader and mentor to the youngsters. Let Hartman have a 3 year deal to guide the youngsters, and then if there is a roster crunch, you can move on from him.

Given that obtaining a 1C is expensive, it's also possible the potential roster logjam gets resolved via trade, allowing him to stay. Rossi is not a lock, so maybe Hartman stays and Rossi gets traded as part of a package for a quality 1C.

[Sviginak]

Grizzle, Lizard, Moose; probably only keep one of these critters and we should know which by the trade deadline. Subject to season ending injuries and career years of course.

[M_Nels]

17 hours ago, PNW Wild said:

A Hartman extension would be wise because of all the young talent coming up. He is as versatile as they come. He has shown the ability to play up in the lineup and down in the lineup, wing and center. That can allow the younger players to come in and find themselves and he can move up or down depending on how the transition is going. That is if he does sign another team friendly deal. 

Bingo! Really don't think Hartman is going to be chasing money on the open market, I could definitely see him taking another team friendly deal. I'd be on board with another 3yr deal, he has more than out-played his current deal.

[mnfaninnc]

Listening to the arguments, it seems like in the Zuccarello article, much of the sentiment was resign. In the Hartman article much of the sentiment is resign. What will it be when the Foligno article comes out?

Here's the thing, there are only 23 roster spots. At some point, we've got to transition the new guys into those spots. Where is the room going to come from? In '24, we have the possibility of icing 8 rookies. 

Typically, we've only used 22 roster spots, but with all the rookies, I'd think we'd be in position to use all 23. Nothing kills prospect's morale quite like road blocks. And, they are ready to make the jump! I think one of the downfalls of the Red Wings was over marinating the players in the A. For instance, Mantha should have been up 2 years before. I think it stunted his growth as a player.

I suspect that Dino and Yurov are going to be fully ready. I'm iffy on Ohgren but he'd only be a year away. Beckman and possibly Stramel should be ready, Stramel might be at the end of the year when Wisconsin's season is over. I expect The Wall to slide into the Fleury vacated spot, and Lambos, Hunt and possibly O'Rourke to be ready. 

What do you do if you keep resigning the placeholders? I'd love to have opportunity for these guys. We have no idea if Shaw makes it back after 4 ACLs (which might be some kind of record for a pro athlete). I believe that Duhaime has upside, as does Dewar. Ek, Kaprizov, Boldy, 1 more year of Johansson, Gaudreau, Rossi all have some term left. Spurgeon, Middleton, Brodin, Faber all should be a part. 

So, where do you put these guys? I didn't even mention some of the fringe players in the A like Milne, and Walker. Do you leave the spots open for the kids to claim them, or do they have to beat out a vet who would then be given away? I'm not saying we can't resign anybody, but at some point you have to look at the positions and realize that opportunity has to be there. 

[Pewterschmidt]

16 hours ago, Sviginak said:

Grizzle, Lizard, Moose; probably only keep one of these critters and we should know which by the trade deadline. Subject to season ending injuries and career years of course.

Foligno is entering his pure pylon years.  We saw his best year two years ago.  How many more jump punches do we need to see.  Absolute liability in playoffs last year.  But Pewter the refs.   He played himself into being a liability

 lizard May still have some value on open market.  Deal this falling knife of a contract

 Grizzle? Lot’s of tread left on tire, capable 1C when forced into role. This guy is textbook 3rd liner during back nine of his career on a contending team.  
verdict: grizzle

Edited August 23, 2023 by Pewterschmidt

[vonlonster67]

I don't see the Wild signing for a 1C next year as they may want to see what they have in house and are preparing to sign the next wave and don't want to jeopardize the system they now have. 

I'd tell BG to keep being smart with our cap as I want to resign KK in two years ($13-$14m). They sign Hartzy and Duhaime, possibly Zucci to cheaper and I see Foligno on a team friendly also or he is going to have to start over again and at his age I'm guessing location is more important at this stage in his career.

[Sviginak]

3 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Foligno is entering his pure pylon years.  We saw his best year two years ago.  How many more jump punches do we need to see.  Absolute liability in playoffs last year.  But Pewter the refs.   He played himself into being a liability

 lizard May still have some value on open market.  Deal this falling knife of a contract

 Grizzle? Lot’s of tread left on tire, capable 1C when forced into role. This guy is textbook 3rd liner during back nine of his career on a contending team.  
verdict: grizzle

I would agree with your verdict. Value of the three at the trade deadline and the kind of year the up and comers are having is what could change things. All the young guns looking good and Grizzle is worth a first round pick could alter things Even though we know we won’t be going deep, it will be an interesting year.

[vonlonster67]

4 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Listening to the arguments, it seems like in the Zuccarello article, much of the sentiment was resign. In the Hartman article much of the sentiment is resign. What will it be when the Foligno article comes out?

Here's the thing, there are only 23 roster spots. At some point, we've got to transition the new guys into those spots. Where is the room going to come from? In '24, we have the possibility of icing 8 rookies. 

Typically, we've only used 22 roster spots, but with all the rookies, I'd think we'd be in position to use all 23. Nothing kills prospect's morale quite like road blocks. And, they are ready to make the jump! I think one of the downfalls of the Red Wings was over marinating the players in the A. For instance, Mantha should have been up 2 years before. I think it stunted his growth as a player.

I suspect that Dino and Yurov are going to be fully ready. I'm iffy on Ohgren but he'd only be a year away. Beckman and possibly Stramel should be ready, Stramel might be at the end of the year when Wisconsin's season is over. I expect The Wall to slide into the Fleury vacated spot, and Lambos, Hunt and possibly O'Rourke to be ready. 

What do you do if you keep resigning the placeholders? I'd love to have opportunity for these guys. We have no idea if Shaw makes it back after 4 ACLs (which might be some kind of record for a pro athlete). I believe that Duhaime has upside, as does Dewar. Ek, Kaprizov, Boldy, 1 more year of Johansson, Gaudreau, Rossi all have some term left. Spurgeon, Middleton, Brodin, Faber all should be a part. 

So, where do you put these guys? I didn't even mention some of the fringe players in the A like Milne, and Walker. Do you leave the spots open for the kids to claim them, or do they have to beat out a vet who would then be given away? I'm not saying we can't resign anybody, but at some point you have to look at the positions and realize that opportunity has to be there. 

I get what you are saying, but there's no way 8 rookies are going to be on this squad. Zucci is a short term 1-2 yrs, Foligno trade or 1- 2 yrs, Hartzy 3 yrs (28yoa) for the 3rd or fourth line.

The transition is two years away where you would see all of those 8 rookies as you say and the turnover of our "D". What are you going to do with Spurgy is the biggest question.  

'24-'25

KK - Dino - Zucci (Yurov) IA                                                                                          Boldy - EEK - JoJo (Ohgren) IA (Petrovský) IA                                                          Gaudreau - Rossi - Duhaime (Beckman)                                                                Foligno - Dewar - Hartzy (Walker) (Haight) IA

Spurgeon - Middy                                                                                                        Brodin - Faber                                                                                                            Lambos - Hunt (Merrill) (Peart) IA

Gustavsson/Wallstedt

'25 - '26

KK - Dino - Yurov                                                                                                           Boldy - EEK - Ohgren (JoJo)                                                                                    Beckman - Rossi - Duhaime (Bankier) IA (Petrovský) IA                                         Gaudreau - Dewar - Hartzy (Stramel) IA

Brodin - Faber                                                                                                           Lambos - Hunt (Masters) IA                                                                                        Spacek -  Middy (Spurgeon) (O'Rourke) IA (Peart)IA

Gustavsson/Wallstedt

These are our candidates unless I missed one, let the discussion begin! 😎

Edited August 23, 2023 by vonlonster67

[vonlonster67]

10 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

I get what you are saying, but there's no way 8 rookies are going to be on this squad. Zucci is a short term 1-2 yrs, Foligno trade or 1- 2 yrs, Hartzy 3 yrs (28yoa) for the 3rd or fourth line.

The transition is two years away where you would see all of those 8 rookies as you say and the turnover of our "D". What are you going to do with Spurgy is the biggest question.  

'24-'25

KK - Dino - Zucci (Yurov) IA                                                                                          Boldy - EEK - JoJo (Ohgren) IA (Petrovský) IA                                                          Gaudreau - Rossi - Duhaime (Beckman)                                                                Foligno - Dewar - Hartzy (Walker) (Haight) IA

Spurgeon - Middy                                                                                                        Brodin - Faber                                                                                                            Lambos - Hunt (Merrill) (Peart) IA

Gustavsson/Wallstedt

'25 - '26

KK - Dino - Yurov                                                                                                           Boldy - EEK - Ohgren (JoJo)                                                                                    Beckman - Rossi - Duhaime (Bankier) IA (Petrovský) IA                                         Gaudreau - Dewar - Hartzy (Stramel) IA

Brodin - Faber                                                                                                           Lambos - Hunt (Masters) IA                                                                                        Spacek -  Middy (Spurgeon) (O'Rourke) IA (Peart)IA

Gustavsson/Wallstedt

These are our candidates unless I missed one, let the discussion begin! 😎

I get what you are saying, but there's no way 8 rookies are going to be on this squad. Zucci is a short term 1-2 yrs, Foligno trade or 1- 2 yrs, Hartzy 3 yrs (28yoa) for the 3rd or fourth line.

The transition is two years away where you would see all of those 8 rookies as you say and the turnover of our "D". What are you going to do with Spurgy is the biggest question.  

'24-'25 

 KK - Dino - Zucci (Yurov) IA
 Boldy - EEK - JoJo (Ohgren) IA (Petrovský)IA 
Gaudreau - Rossi - Duhaime (Beckman) 
Foligno - Dewar - Hartzy (Walker) Haight) IA
 

Spurgeon - Middy
Brodin - Faber
Lambos - Hunt (Merrill) (Peart) IA
         Gustavsson/Wallstedt

'25 - '26 

KK - Dino - Yurov
Boldy - EEK - Ohgren (JoJo)
Beckman - Rossi - Duhaime (Bankier) IA (Petrovský) IA
 Gaudreau - Dewar - Hartzy (Stramel) IA
 

Brodin - Faber
Lambos - Hunt (Masters) IA
Spacek -  Middy (Spurgeon) O'Rourke) IA (Peart)IA
          Gustavsson/Wallstedt

 

These are our candidates unless I missed one, let the discussion begin! 😎

A BETTER READ

[vonlonster67]

2 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

I get what you are saying, but there's no way 8 rookies are going to be on this squad. Zucci is a short term 1-2 yrs, Foligno trade or 1- 2 yrs, Hartzy 3 yrs (28yoa) for the 3rd or fourth line.

The transition is two years away where you would see all of those 8 rookies as you say and the turnover of our "D". What are you going to do with Spurgy is the biggest question.  

'24-'25 

 KK - Dino - Zucci (Yurov) IA
 Boldy - EEK - JoJo (Ohgren) IA (Petrovský)IA 
Gaudreau - Rossi - Duhaime (Beckman) 
Foligno - Dewar - Hartzy (Walker) Haight) IA
 

Spurgeon - Middy
Brodin - Faber
Lambos - Hunt (Merrill) (Peart) IA
         Gustavsson/Wallstedt

'25 - '26 

KK - Dino - Yurov
Boldy - EEK - Ohgren (JoJo)
Beckman - Rossi - Duhaime (Bankier) IA (Petrovský) IA
 Gaudreau - Dewar - Hartzy (Stramel) IA
 

Brodin - Faber
Lambos - Hunt (Masters) IA
Spacek -  Middy (Spurgeon) O'Rourke) IA (Peart)IA
          Gustavsson/Wallstedt

 

These are our candidates unless I missed one, let the discussion begin! 😎

A BETTER READ

SORRY DOUBLE POST, EDITING WASNT WORKING

[vonlonster67]

4 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Foligno is entering his pure pylon years.  We saw his best year two years ago.  How many more jump punches do we need to see.  Absolute liability in playoffs last year.  But Pewter the refs.   He played himself into being a liability

 lizard May still have some value on open market.  Deal this falling knife of a contract

 Grizzle? Lot’s of tread left on tire, capable 1C when forced into role. This guy is textbook 3rd liner during back nine of his career on a contending team.  
verdict: grizzle

Agree on Hartzy, he's too young to let walk and is the identity of this team. Moose will come cheap so keep for physicality and Zucc maybe a one year to let him sail off into the Wild. Trading him he'll have a NTC this year.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

These are our candidates unless I missed one, let the discussion begin! 😎

Where are putting Stramel on this list? Maybe even Heidt? I believe Stramel signs after Wisconsin's '24-25 season.

I see where you put Stramel, I have to think he's not going to Iowa.

Edited August 24, 2023 by mnfaninnc

[vonlonster67]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

Where are putting Stramel on this list? Maybe even Heidt? I believe Stramel signs after Wisconsin's '24-25 season.

Heidt and Stramel at 19 now will be in IA then

[mnfaninnc]

Just now, vonlonster67 said:

Heidt and Stramel at 19 now will be in IA then

I must be seeing a quicker transition level. I think Stramel does a Faber. I think Heidt may be right. I just don't think blocking the prospects with more years of those 3 are going to help. I'd say we get to choose 1.

[vonlonster67]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I must be seeing a quicker transition level. I think Stramel does a Faber. I think Heidt may be right. I just don't think blocking the prospects with more years of those 3 are going to help. I'd say we get to choose 1.

Stramel's ascension will depend on Rossi or he's relegated to 4th line