Article: Extension Watch: What Should the Wild Do With Mats Zuccarello?

[Skolwild]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We haven't had Rosie colored glasses for the last 3 years, yet this group has overachieved. So, what do you do if we're in the hunt? What do you do if we've got a pretty good handle on 3rd place in the division which is likely? Selling for youth isn't going to make the owner happy. 

I like prospects and getting more bullets, but at some point you've got to develop and realize that the future is now. I think we're fast approaching that time and the guys we've drafted the last 3-4 years are the guys we're running with. Extra 2nds aren't really going to move the needle.

If they are contending then you do nothing. Let him ride the year out and walk in FA. 
 

the future isn’t now. The future is in 2025. And really the first true contention year is not the year the following cap relief. Sure they will have ample freed up money, and sign some big names. However, most of the roster will be filled with players of < 3 years of experience most of which are < 2 y. So really when you can expect a true contending team is probably the 26-27 season. How is hobbit in that conversation? He’s a stop gap for the Russians/Rossi/FA signing at best.

if another first round exit is important to OCL, which history says it is, then Let them get bounced again likely as a wild card (my projected ceiling for the season). 
 

if not then get something for an aging veteran who has trade able talent who is not in the future. 

[vonlonster67]

39 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'm not sure that it would. Rossi would be the "prospect," Peart, Johansson would be the sweeteners, and a #1 pick. Lambos would have been much like Brandt was for the Kings, the untouchable defender. And, we know that Vancouver needs defensemen. I could see Masters also, but if I'm Guerin, I'm saying no to Lambos and Spacek. 

In context, this was for '23-24, not '24-25. It was in response to Pettersson not wanting to sign longterm with Vancouver (much like I suspect Fiala didn't want to do with the Wild). In this case, Pettersson kind of gets to pick his destination. I think he would choose the Wild as one of those teams. The team acquiring would want a contract extension in place, much like was done with Fiala. The main thing that is different is that Pettersson is a center not a wing, so his value is higher. 

I'm also not dumping off spare parts for volume. Peart, probably more than Johansson, are decent prospects. I'd say Johansson is probably farther along. Rossi is an excellent C prospect that could jump right in. 

Its fun to reckless speculate while we wait for the season though...

[mnfaninnc]

11 minutes ago, vonlonster67 said:

Its fun to reckless speculate while we wait for the season though...

It is. I'd also like to point out that the Wild have a superstar in Kaprizov to go along with Pettersson, fellow countrymen in Ek, Brodin, Wallstedt and Gustavsson. The climate is similar to Sweden and there's a large Swedish population in the area. These things contribute to this player's well being and comfort level. I assume it is still a nice place to raise children. You're in a huge hockey market that is not a really busy city. 

I think our area could be on the top of Pettersson's list, and we'll have money to pay him coming up. If Pettersson is finicky, he may not give Vancouver many options to trade him to, just like I believe Fiala was. Pettersson's value stems mainly from being able to resign him. If he only wants to go to a few places, well, the competition to get him is not as much. For Pettersson, it's in his best interest for Vancouver not to pull a lot of assets out of the team he's going to so that the new team will be better. That's kind of how it worked with Fiala, as we got the Number 1 pick (20s) and a good prospect (Faber), but no NHL player. Vancouver is behind the 8 ball in cap too, so, that real NHL player may have to be someone very young.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Look at what guys like Bergeron and Krecji played for.

Bergeron hasn't played for less than $4.375M since 2007.

Krecji did play 1 season at $1M, following several seasons at $7.25M. He thought they were a cup contender(they were certainly talented enough to win) and after playing his whole career in Boston, he likely didn't want to change teams when he suspected it was his last season--he's retired now. That's a very unique situation.

It's a major difference between an average contract where Bergeron was and where Krecji was at. I don't think Zuccarello is coming back for something that close to the minimum to be on the top line for the Wild.  If you were to say $2.5M, I could maybe believe he'd consider that.

Zuccarello seemed to be playing through stuff during the 2nd half of last season. If he really does fall off, then maybe the market would be below $2M, but I wouldn't expect it to fall all the way down to $1M, and I'm not certain if he'd have the same level to commitment to the Wild as a guy who played his whole career with 1 team.

I'm sure there was plenty of market for Dumba if he were willing to play at $2.5M to 3M, but to be up near $4M, the options were not abundant. It's still extremely far from $1M, and the minimum will be $775,000 for the 2024-2025 season.

 

[vonlonster67]

4 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Bergeron hasn't played for less than $4.375M since 2007.

Krecji did play 1 season at $1M, following several seasons at $7.25M. He thought they were a cup contender(they were certainly talented enough to win) and after playing his whole career in Boston, he likely didn't want to change teams when he suspected it was his last season--he's retired now. That's a very unique situation.

It's a major difference between an average contract where Bergeron was and where Krecji was at. I don't think Zuccarello is coming back for something that close to the minimum to be on the top line for the Wild.  If you were to say $2.5M, I could maybe believe he'd consider that.

Zuccarello seemed to be playing through stuff during the 2nd half of last season. If he really does fall off, then maybe the market would be below $2M, but I wouldn't expect it to fall all the way down to $1M, and I'm not certain if he'd have the same level to commitment to the Wild as a guy who played his whole career with 1 team.

I'm sure there was plenty of market for Dumba if he were willing to play at $2.5M to 3M, but to be up near $4M, the options were not abundant. It's still extremely far from $1M, and the minimum will be $775,000 for the 2024-2025 season.

 

Huck, you have some great speculative points and very accurate in regard to Zucci.

This year will help us decide that offer outcome. It hasn't been popular saying we should keep him, but I'm still in for him at that $2.5-3m.

There's no hurry with the extension and I'm guessing the Wild make no bold plays or expectations with their young guys. It always seems like BG likes to have a known back up plan.

[Quebec1648]

The only factor that matters, is how Kaprizov responds to the idea of moving on from Zuccarello. We all know that Kaprizov only signed a 5 year, and the Wild need him long term. If resigning Zuccarello is the ticket to getting Kaprizov to sign long term, then I am OK with it.

The one scenario I worry about, is one where the Wild move on from Zuccarello, and then Kaprizov gets angry and wants to leave town for a new team.

[M_Nels]

10 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

The only factor that matters, is how Kaprizov responds to the idea of moving on from Zuccarello. We all know that Kaprizov only signed a 5 year, and the Wild need him long term. If resigning Zuccarello is the ticket to getting Kaprizov to sign long term, then I am OK with it.

The one scenario I worry about, is one where the Wild move on from Zuccarello, and then Kaprizov gets angry and wants to leave town for a new team.

Kap is a competitor. I would damn well hope that he realizes how a Zucc regression would impact his production as well. I hope he could put the friendship aspect aside before he pulls an Eric Cartman. That’s why the development of prospects is so important, if Kap wants to get a long-term deal done with the Wild he’s gotta see they are building around him. I’m sure GMBG has preached patience and that when the buyouts come off the book he’ll be going out swinging for another big star if necessary. 
 

I’m on board with a 1yr extension for Zucc at this point unless this season he regains form and can stay healthy. It’s fun to discuss but at the end of the day we don’t know these players personally but we (and the coaches) all want to see the best team on the ice. 

[mnfaninnc]

20 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Bergeron hasn't played for less than $4.375M since 2007.

Looking at capfriendly, it appears he played on a $2.5m contract last season, and that was his cap hit. However, he had $2.5m in performance bonuses which kicked in when he played 10 games. How does this not circumvent the cap? I thought Boston was up against the cap. 

But, in this conversation, I think we can agree that Bergeron>Zuccarello. Sure both Bergeron and Krejci played exclusively for the Bruins, but my point was that after they made their money, they had unfinished business and came back under their talent value, really well under their talent value. 

Where does Zuccarello identify with? NYR or Wild? I would say that his relationship with Kaprizov might suggest that he identifies more with this team. At the age of Zuccarello, or for that matter, any other 35+ player, you're no longer playing to support the family, you made your money. Now it's about winning and still being able to perform, and legacy. 

IMO, all 35+ contracts should be for 1 year and we re-evaluate next year. There is an understanding between player and GM. If the player falls off a cliff, much like Goligoski did the 1/2 year before he was resigned for 2 years, that gets taken into account. The 2 year deals for both Goligoski and Fleury should have been 1 year deals. Goligoski should not have been resigned for this year, but Fleury's body of work would suggest an extension, perhaps a little lower in money. 

Moving forward, I think we need to be smarter about this type of contract and limit them to 1 year. Shooter has a track record of making good on his promises or oral commitments. I think he'll be honest with players, if you perform as you did before, another contract will be awaiting you. If you do not, we will adjust accordingly. Agents won't like that, but players will understand.

As for Zuccarello now, I cannot see us resigning him for term or money. He would be playing mainly because he wants to play, not for the money. I would have no problem with a $1m base and performance bonuses (but real ones, not 10 games played layups). If he can still produce points and stay healthy, a bonus is absolutely earned. I'm not sure why GMs don't insist on the performance bonuses more. I'm pretty sure that agents hate them. They want fully guaranteed deals. 

 

[mnfaninnc]

14 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

The only factor that matters, is how Kaprizov responds to the idea of moving on from Zuccarello. We all know that Kaprizov only signed a 5 year, and the Wild need him long term. If resigning Zuccarello is the ticket to getting Kaprizov to sign long term, then I am OK with it.

If you run a team like this, you will fail. When you are a professional, getting to play with your friends is a benefit, but not expected. Professionals have to move on and keep doing their thing at the highest level possible. New friends are coming for him. Old friends age out.

If you want to run things this way, then why not make Kaprizov the GM? There were huge complaints about this when Suter tried to run the team! This isn't the way this works, this isn't the way any of this works!

[Will D. Ness]

This appeasement narrative of signing of Zucc for KK97 is crazy.  Any such narrative assumes that KK97 is a prima donna selfish little baby.

I don't see it, therefore I have to call BS.  

Now maybe there is a little incentive to sign Zucc because the team is wanting "character" guys and a good locker room and Zucc definitely brings both.

What that value is, I doubt will be anything near anything that would handcuff the future.

[joebou15]

On 8/15/2023 at 4:40 PM, vonlonster67 said:

Good points, we can't change this year so $6m it is. I personally like mnfaniac take of $1m, but don't think it'll get him signed.

I don't believe we're gonna have that many reliable wingers a year from now that would help us in a playoff run. I know we have the prospects,  and I DO NOT want to block anyone's opportunity.

 Why mess with the locker room and bring in someone else at KK expense if your gonna pay someone else $2m. Leadership is valued or you have a locker room like Anaheim with everyone playing their own tune and haven't a clue about team. 

The Wild have a captain in Spurgeon, Brodin is over 30, Matt Boldy is a part of this team's core and is a high character guy. Joel Eriksson Ek has no problem stepping up.

It's not like the team is completely devoid of character and leadership. And if there's a leadership vacuum, the team can buy that on the FA market for way cheaper than it will be to re-sign Zuccarello.

[vonlonster67]

27 minutes ago, joebou15 said:

if there's a leadership vacuum, the team can buy that on the FA market for way cheaper than it will be to re-sign Zuccarello.

We have a known, and it works with KK, why try to plug a FA into our locker room for leadership. It's about more than leadership.

Those guys aren't going to come in and be the magic if their team was willing to part with them. Are they going to play on the top line or who are you going to put there? Break up Boldy, EEK, and JoJo, not. The third line?  Maybe in a year or beginning of second year, our prospects step up.

Everyone acts like were going to find that magic somewhere else and that it will be better than what we have. Granted the magic was lacking at the end of the year, but it was damn good at times too. KK getting hurt set us back.

Paying Zucci and the price is yet to be determined so I say play this season and the price will fit our cap moving forward.

[vonlonster67]

23 hours ago, Skolwild said:

He’s a stop gap for the Russians/Rossi/FA signing at best.

Exactly, for two years tops.....that give Yurov, Öhgren, Beckman, Bankier, Walker time with no pressure.  

[Quebec1648]

13 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

If you run a team like this, you will fail. When you are a professional, getting to play with your friends is a benefit, but not expected. Professionals have to move on and keep doing their thing at the highest level possible. New friends are coming for him. Old friends age out.

If you want to run things this way, then why not make Kaprizov the GM? There were huge complaints about this when Suter tried to run the team! This isn't the way this works, this isn't the way any of this works!

I disagree, because the Wild franchise has been short on star players and had difficulty getting big name free agents to come here. The Wild also keep getting bounced in round one every year. This creates an incentive to keep Kaprizov around, hence the focus on making him happy. If Kaprizov wants to win, he will likely leave when his deal expires.

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

I disagree, because the Wild franchise has been short on star players and had difficulty getting big name free agents to come here. The Wild also keep getting bounced in round one every year. This creates an incentive to keep Kaprizov around, hence the focus on making him happy. If Kaprizov wants to win, he will likely leave when his deal expires.

So, is your position that Zuccarello is the answer to Kaprizov's happiness? I would suggest that this is not so. I think Kaprizov would be ecstatic if the $5m saved in Zuccarello's contract ($6m-ELC contract) went towards finally getting him a center. 

Friends are friends, but the hunger to win is more important. Kaprizov knows how old Zuccarello is and he won't be able to keep this up much longer. He also is keenly aware that every center he has had next to him, Kaprizov has had to carry. What sort of dynamic could happen if Kaprizov actually had a center like Pettersson next to him? I'd suggest that this would make Kaprizov more happy than Zuccarello.

I'll take you back to a conversation that Guerin had with Kaprizov when he first came over. Guerin asked Kaprizov if he needed to sign another Russian player to help Kaprizov's transition over here. Kaprizov's response was to only sign a Russian player if it helps them win. From this conversation, we can identify that Kaprizov's #1 priority is winning! Now, Guerin did sign another Russian player in Kulikov. To my knowledge, I don't know that he and Kaprizov were ever very close.

You know who will help us win? Ohgren, Yurov, Khus$%^&* and Lambos. Wallstedt finally coming up will give us a great tandem. Obtaining a disgruntled Pettersson from Vancouver would also help....a lot! 

If it were me in Shooter's seat, I would recognize that resigning Foligno for 2 years is more important for winning, specifically in the postseason, than Zuccarello is. We've got lots of skill coming, but Bankier, Stramel, Kumpulainen are all a couple of years away. Yes, Foligno had a meltdown this playoffs, but his presence is exactly what's needed. He'll still be in the right age window too. 

Zuccarello has performed his contract well, much to my surprise and delight. He has been an excellent player, and a handful of players can actually postpone father time somewhat. I'm not sure whether Zuccarello is one of those guys or not, but if resigned, it's got to be cheap and it's got to be only 1 year.

[Quebec1648]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:34 AM, mnfaninnc said:

So, is your position that Zuccarello is the answer to Kaprizov's happiness? I would suggest that this is not so. I think Kaprizov would be ecstatic if the $5m saved in Zuccarello's contract ($6m-ELC contract) went towards finally getting him a center. 

Friends are friends, but the hunger to win is more important. Kaprizov knows how old Zuccarello is and he won't be able to keep this up much longer. He also is keenly aware that every center he has had next to him, Kaprizov has had to carry. What sort of dynamic could happen if Kaprizov actually had a center like Pettersson next to him? I'd suggest that this would make Kaprizov more happy than Zuccarello.

I'll take you back to a conversation that Guerin had with Kaprizov when he first came over. Guerin asked Kaprizov if he needed to sign another Russian player to help Kaprizov's transition over here. Kaprizov's response was to only sign a Russian player if it helps them win. From this conversation, we can identify that Kaprizov's #1 priority is winning! Now, Guerin did sign another Russian player in Kulikov. To my knowledge, I don't know that he and Kaprizov were ever very close.

You know who will help us win? Ohgren, Yurov, Khus$%^&* and Lambos. Wallstedt finally coming up will give us a great tandem. Obtaining a disgruntled Pettersson from Vancouver would also help....a lot! 

If it were me in Shooter's seat, I would recognize that resigning Foligno for 2 years is more important for winning, specifically in the postseason, than Zuccarello is. We've got lots of skill coming, but Bankier, Stramel, Kumpulainen are all a couple of years away. Yes, Foligno had a meltdown this playoffs, but his presence is exactly what's needed. He'll still be in the right age window too. 

Zuccarello has performed his contract well, much to my surprise and delight. He has been an excellent player, and a handful of players can actually postpone father time somewhat. I'm not sure whether Zuccarello is one of those guys or not, but if resigned, it's got to be cheap and it's got to be only 1 year.

A couple points to make.

Number one, is that Kaprizov's comments about winning came before he developed that great chemistry with Zuccarello and before he experienced multiple first round exits.

The second point, is how do you propose getting Kaprizov his #1 center? Big name free agents don't seem all that interested in coming to Minnesota. Trading for a true #1 center is always expensive, so the Wild would have to trade multiple players or picks to get a guy like Petterson. Bill Guerin refused to spend the picks / prospects for an Eichel trade, so I don't see him doing it for a disgruntled center like Petterson. 

I just don't see the Wild acquiring a #1 center anytime soon, so they should resign Zuccarello on a short term deal. If you let Zuccarello walk and fail to acquire a center, then Kaprizov is left with nothing.

If the Wild continue to get bounced in round one, then you can't assume Kaprizov will want to remain, unless you surround him with close friends like Zuccarello. 

[mnfaninnc]

21 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

The second point, is how do you propose getting Kaprizov his #1 center? Big name free agents don't seem all that interested in coming to Minnesota. Trading for a true #1 center is always expensive, so the Wild would have to trade multiple players or picks to get a guy like Petterson. Bill Guerin refused to spend the picks / prospects for an Eichel trade, so I don't see him doing it for a disgruntled center like Petterson. 

Yes. This is the way. And I doubt it will be as expensive as you think. 

1. Eichel was expensive both in cap and trade expense. 
2. Eichel's health was a risk. How big a risk it was varied by team.
3. Eichel wasn't disgruntled with the team, he was disgruntled with management and his health.
4. Both Pettersson and Lindholm are not happy in their current positions, probably due to the talent around them and management's solution.
5. Like we were backed into a corner with Fiala, Vancouver and Calgary will likely be backed into the same corner. While Faber and Ohgren/Yurov may even work out for us, it was a #1 pick (19) + good prospect. Usually we would also get a roster player, but we did not.
6. We are talking about 2 different points in time. The Wild were not ready for an Eichel when he was available on this course. The Wild are now ready to add that piece. 

I would anticipate that some very well liked pieces will be heading in the other direction as we obtain a guy to pair with Kaprizov. The chemistry part you reference is a red herring. Father Time is taking care of that aspect. Unless Zuccarello is signing for a team friendly, well below market value 1 year extension, at 37 you have to know when to walk away. 

And, at 36, there is no guarantee that Zuccarello stays on that line. He was definitely slowed the 2nd half of last season, granted that some of that may have been due to injury. But with his size, injury is always going to be a risk/concern. Someone younger, stronger, bigger should be sought for that position. IMO, the friendship thing is nice, but has no bearing on the contract situation. Winning and the potential to win has most of the bearing, character and fit has the remaining.