Article: Can the Wild's Top Line Play "Small Ball"?

[Tony Abbott]

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[Justin Hein]

Parise-Granlund-Pominville was unfair in NHL franchise mode. Good times. 

[Velgey]

I'd like to see Rossi get a shot in the top 6, but I have to acknowledge it looks like you put a finger on the scale with the parameters of your thought experiment. All three of your example lines have two players standing at 5'11", so a KK - Rossi - Zucc line is still pretty significantly smaller. Of course, it looks like you didn't have much of a choice if there aren't any other suitable lines for comparison, good or bad, that played together at least 400 minutes.

P.S. By your standard of 5'11" or below, KK - Hartman - Zucc is also a short king line.

[TS102]

Kaprizov is a non-issue in the size department. He's got a ton of muscle for his size, is impossible to knock off the puck, throws hits, and can win any puck battle along the boards. Reminds me of Peter Forsberg in a lot of ways. Rossi and Zuccy can't do this, however. They get pushed around very easily, but what is the solution? If Rossi is playing bottom 6, we should have traded him. If Rossi plays top 6, does that mean we break up Boldy/Ek/Johansson line, which was having success? Curious to see what happens.

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, Velgey said:

P.S. By your standard of 5'11" or below, KK - Hartman - Zucc is also a short king line.

NHL lists Hartman at 6'0". 

[Smokey]

I’m all for Zucc Rossi and Kirill as a line but having them play only 4 or 5 games to start out with is not enough games  PLEASE 🙏🏻 PLEASE START THE YEAR with them playing at least 10 games together FINDING out early in the season will benefit the team for the rest of the year  BY  then you will know if you can pick and choose if you want to play them with certain teams!!!!!!!!

[calmseas]

Small Ball...Broten-Dino-Bellows....dynamic    Broten-Dino-Lawton?

[MNCountryLife]

There are always exceptions to a rule.  Some players like Marchessault are rare in that they pack a lot of muscle onto a smaller frame.  This is similar to Kirill.  The shorter you are the harder it is to pack that beef on and still be in good physical condition.  For this reason I tend to advocate quite a bit for taller players.  But you certainly cannot rule out smaller players.  Zuc, Kirill and Spurgeon are all fantastic players and have earned every minute of ice time.  Middleton has a fraction of the skill that Spurgeon has yet make no mistake... Middleton's size allows him to play a different style of hockey that can be comparatively effective to that of Spurgeon.

Can "Small Ball" work.  Yes, it Can.  But it will depend greatly on Rossi and how he does this summer.  He needs to be stronger.... especially his lower body.

[vonlonster67]

Ya lost me at NBA...

[Need4speed99]

2 hours ago, Smokey said:

I’m all for Zucc Rossi and Kirill as a line but having them play only 4 or 5 games to start out with is not enough games  PLEASE 🙏🏻 PLEASE START THE YEAR with them playing at least 10 games together FINDING out early in the season will benefit the team for the rest of the year  BY  then you will know if you can pick and choose if you want to play them with certain teams!!!!!!!!

I really have to agree with this. Evason and Guerin need to get with the times or will end up looking like Spielman and Zimmer. Play skill guys with skill guys. The team NEEDS to see what Rossi can become(if anything) and putting him on lower lines that focus more on shutdown and checking is not it. 

Love the article Tony and I love how you seem to voice alot of the same thoughts/concerns some of the fantasy has.

[UncleWalt]

Robertson is better than Kaprizov because Robertson has better line mates. Finding Kaprizov better line mates would make Kaprizov even better. Therefore, improving Kaprizov’s center should be the number one goal to get the most out of Kaprizov next year. Rossi is the best option there. This isn’t really hard. 

[Protec]

I'll believe Rossi is a top six NHL'er when I see it.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

There are no other comparable lines, so we should all assume that they'd be as good as lines that average 2" larger than them?

Sam Steel might have been able to tally 50 points playing with Kucherov and Brayden Point in that year.

Kaprizov is great, and could certainly help Rossi's point total(that is who scored for the only assist of Rossi's 21-game career to this point), but it's not clear if Rossi would be good for KK97, or if they would outplay opponents.

You put Zuccarello, Rossi, and Kaprizov out there together and other teams are going to put their top lines on the ice pretty quickly. Could be fine against the Coyotes or Sharks, but is that Wild line going to win against top tier talent more often than not? Hard to say.

There might be a good reason no other coaches have played 3 forwards together who were all under 5'10" for over 400 minutes in a season over the last decade, and I have significant doubts that Evason will be the first. I believe Rossi could develop, but I don't think he's earned over 16 minutes per night at the NHL level, and I cannot imagine him getting that this season.

[Wild4Ever]

7 hours ago, vonlonster67 said:

Ya lost me at NBA...

Blasphemy

[Velgey]

16 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

NHL lists Hartman at 6'0". 

Fair enough. I was using the unimpeachable source of Wikipedia... guess I should have double-checked!

[Velgey]

15 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

There are always exceptions to a rule.  Some players like Marchessault are rare in that they pack a lot of muscle onto a smaller frame.  This is similar to Kirill.  The shorter you are the harder it is to pack that beef on and still be in good physical condition.  For this reason I tend to advocate quite a bit for taller players.  But you certainly cannot rule out smaller players.  Zuc, Kirill and Spurgeon are all fantastic players and have earned every minute of ice time.  Middleton has a fraction of the skill that Spurgeon has yet make no mistake... Middleton's size allows him to play a different style of hockey that can be comparatively effective to that of Spurgeon.

Can "Small Ball" work.  Yes, it Can.  But it will depend greatly on Rossi and how he does this summer.  He needs to be stronger.... especially his lower body.

I seem to recall Rossi being described as being build like a fire hydrant (i.e. short but stout), but that was prior to COVID and myocarditis. Hopefully he's been successful this summer in working back to being the guy that had scouts glowing about his strength.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Velgey

[Up North Guy]

12 hours ago, Protec said:

I'll believe Rossi is a top six NHL'er when I see it.

And we all hope you do see it.

[mnfaninnc]

I have no qualms about playing a short line. It does bug me when people claim Kaprizov is 5'9", when he's listed a 5'10", but does that inch really matter?

It's not about the height, it's about the weight, ie, strength. 3 stocky guys who are shorter can wear out taller lineups, especially if they are great on their edges. I would love to see a viable lineup like this, but-

Kaprizov is listed at 202. I suspect he is a bit heavier, and it is full muscle. He does not get knocked off the puck and would be solid on any line.

Zuccarello can slip checks, but he is simply not a gritty player and when he throws bodychecks, many times it looks more like bugs hitting a windshield. 1 guy on the line who's finesse is fine. He a very good playmaker and can be productive if he hasn't fallen off the age cliff.

That leaves us with Rossi. He needs to be north of 190 and have added considerable strength of upper and lower body. Last season, it looked like heavy winds could knock him over, or if Chara sneezed. Rossi can be effective if he's hustling, and driving the play, leaping on loose pucks and changing directions. If he isn't, he is a target ready to be launched. 

I'd be comfortable having the Rossi we drafted, filled out playing that same style he did in Ottawa where he was all over the place. I would not feel comfortable having passive Rossi on that line. Like Addison, the choice is up to Rossi, whether or not he really put in the gym work. If I were betting, I'd trust that Rossi did put in the work, but Addison did not. I hope they both did and Addison proves me wrong.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

With all Deano's talk of grit I doubt a short kings line will even be tried, let alone for any time frame that would allow them to create chemistry. Dean seems to have no patience for letting chemistry develop when it comes to rookies and would rather throw Freddy immediately to the top line to be mediocre.

As long as we are so focused on playing our grit game that they constantly spout, our coach will continue to devalue anyone outside of that mentality. The simple fact is, we did not draft for that mentality but Dean expects it from every prospect.

Any of the coaches with the best records and rings on their fingers will tell you, you need to utilize the players you have for their strengths. Dean still doesn't get this and tries to shove square pegs in round holes. As long as he is more committed to this imaginary identity than putting his players in good situations, he will continue to be a regular season coach and fall flat on his face in playoffs. It will also continue to alienate prospects that don't fit his vision of grit. Looking at our prospect pool, that grit identity only matches a couple players from our deep pool. I would suspect that we will see many of our prospects have success elsewhere due to this.

Edited August 9, 2023 by TheGoosesAreLooses

[vonlonster67]

9 hours ago, Wild4Ever said:

Blasphemy

Truer words could not have been spoken 4ever!

[MNCountryLife]

3 hours ago, Velgey said:

I seem to recall Rossi being described as being build like a fire hydrant (i.e. short but stout), but that was prior to COVID and myocarditis. Hopefully he's been successful this summer in working back to being the guy that had scouts glowing about his strength

Good point.  How much strength did he lose?  Has he gained it all back?  Was the strength he had compared to that of other minor league players, collegiate?  How does that strength compare to the NHL level?  I will admit that I haven't seen a lot of Rossi on the ice.  The little I have seen he appears easy to knock of the puck... .especially along the boards.  Maybe it is just being hesitant when he plays up.  Whatever it is.. I do hope he clears that hurdle and I wish him the best of luck. 

[MNCountryLife]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I hope they both did and Addison proves me wrong.

I liked Ek the first year I watched him.  Each year after he seems to have increased his strength and overall game during the off-season.  Players that commit to the off-season can definitely increase their ability to play at the next level and earn more minutes.  Rossi has certainly had to overcome some big obstacles.  I tend to agree with you that Rossi seems committed to the off-season and forcing himself into the MN lineup... which is exactly what we want.  Addison hasn't had the same obstacles and seems to show up in the fall looking exactly like he did in the spring. ... doesn't give me much hope for change.... but who knows.  Maybe Addison works his tail off and proves me wrong.  I enjoy being wrong in instances such as that.

[Cole_Train]

I know it’ll fall on def ears but I’d like to see the top line with Kk-Rossi-Boldy, at least see what it can do in preseason. Rossi and Boldy have had past chemistry and I think their games could complement each others. Boldy brings some size to the line. Rossi should be able to find Kk regularly with his setup skills. Second line of Jojo-EK-Zuc could also work. Jojo brings speed, Ek will dig out pucks and be net front presence, Zuc can be a distributor and set up man. Either way, I’d like to see Dean experiment with what he’s got and not just do the same old until he has to. Dean doesn’t have a history of being the flexible and experimental however. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Cole_Train

[Protec]

5 hours ago, Up North Guy said:

And we all hope you do see it.

I totally hope Rossi gets over the hump this season. I just don't think you can start counting him into the top six. We kinda did that once already last season.

[Velgey]

1 hour ago, Cole_Train said:

I know it’ll fall on def ears but I’d like to see the top line with Kk-Rossi-Boldy, at least see what it can do in preseason. Rossi and Boldy have had past chemistry and I think their games could complement each others. Boldy brings some size to the line. Rossi should be able to find Kk regularly with his setup skills. Second line of Jojo-EK-Zuc could also work. Jojo brings speed, Ek will dig out pucks and be net front presence, Zuc can be a distributor and set up man. 

I don't know if those lines would work or not, but you've piqued my curiousity.