Article: This Was the Team the Wild Wanted To Be

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

The last two seasons have been worst case scenario from a restock the cupboards standpoint.   Finishing high in regular season standings ensuring a late first round pick, then getting rolled in a disappointing (especially for fans) round one performance

I won't disagree with that, but watching a team that has a goal differential worse than -90 isn't a lot of fun either. Chicago and Columbus will have much better picks, but I cannot imagine this season being very entertaining for fans.

The Wild already have one of the better prospect pools, if you still include Faber in that.

The Wild have young talent that want to win. Do you get rid of their quality veteran teammates to ensure they lose for a couple years, and replace Evason with Darby(or someone else without head coaching experience) as the leader behind the bench?

The Wild might even have been able to advance if they had a healthy team in round 1. They were able to play competitive hockey with most of the top teams this year, but they had a really unfortunate injury to Eriksson Ek at the worst time possible.

[Moosehead]

Like Pavelski?

[Mateo3xm]

9 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Wow, where to start. Tony and I will have very different takes but are equally frustrated. So, I'll go chronologically with the article:

I wish we could have kept Fiala. I wish we would have moved the 3 other pieces necessary to do it.  Fiala wasn't a placeholder.  However, as we've seen with McBain, and 2 guys traded away at the deadline this year, it is very possible that Fiala did not want to stay.  This never gets addressed by Tony. It takes 2 to get the contract done and I think it is very possible and even plausible that Fiala wanted to go to a warm weather team, told Guerin this and Guerin moved him. This may even have been why Fiala never went the offersheet route, giving the Wild the opportunity to match.

Since Guerin does his negotiations in the cone of silence, and expects all agents to keep things confidential (see Talbot's agent), we will never know exactly what was said and what the circumstances were. Fiala's girlfriend/wife is a model, and it would be best if she were in a model friendly environment like Miami, LA or maybe even Tampa.  It makes sense for them to finally be in a place where they could live together from a career perspective.  

This is where we will agree the most. Arguably Vegas, definitely St. Louis and Dallas were stronger down the middle than the Wild. This is where we have lost the play in and last 3 playoff series.  We have enough to get through the regular season, but not enough to play against the top 10 teams in the league.  Specifically draws and the middle is where a "grit" team has to win, and we couldn't do it. This is a big fail. Rossi was supposed to help here, he was no help the whole season.

I am very certain that the Wild front office watched Iowa tape often on how the prospects were progressing. I only had access to the highlights, but from watching those, I saw the exact same things that Rossi did up here down there.  Rossi was gliding, not hustling, standing around a lot, not physical, trying to pick pucks out of piles while not getting involved and lacking a compete level. He was not close to being ready for an NHL roster. I saw a glimmer of hope in his final game up here and the final playoff game for Iowa, enough to think that he will be a different player next season. I don't know if he'll ever be physical, but that speed and agility was there that we could see in his jrs. highlight videos.

Our power play did not lose this series, our penalty kill did. Addison did well QBing the power play, but, this was the only thing he did well. Klingberg was not a defensive stalwart, and was directly responsible for Hintz's goal in the final game.  However, he was far more willing to use his body, leverage it against opponents, not get completely run over and get back into the play far faster than Addison can. Addison is not built for playoff hockey, and questionably built for regular season hockey. He is now fully in the Ryan Murphy category of defensemen.  

Addison doesn't even try to sell you on the fact that he's willing to try to play defense. He constantly gets clobbered behind the play and needs a moment or 2 to collect his wits.  I am fully convinced that Addison on the power play would have made 0 difference in this series.  Eriksson Ek missing from the power play is what sank this unit and likely the penalty kill.  I know Guerin had high hopes for Addison being Letang 2.0, but unless Addison comes to his RFA meeting looking visibly filled out, it is time to trade him. Some will see his points and PP tape and bite. 

In conclusion, we have a lot of centers on this team, but, really, they are truly wingers. We have an overabundance of wingers. Our talent pool has an overabundance of wingers. How do we find true centers with our cap situation? UFA is likely not an option. Somehow, Vegas found some centers in their expansion draft.  They identified some players that could thrive if given an opportunity. Their centers weren't paid like top 6 centers either.  Seattle chose to draft them. We've got to figure out a way to fill that void. Maybe, just maybe, Rossi is ready? We won't know until training camp. I'd be willing to deal him, though, if it meant getting a true top 6 center. 

I guess I should add that besides your thoughts on Rossi, I think everything else was pretty accurate.

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Bean, many of us are out of towners who might see a game if the Wild come as visitors. Guys like you have a different perspective, and you can see stuff that the cameras don't cover. 

What are some of the things you noticed that the tv watchers wouldn't see?

I honestly doubt I saw as much as people watching TV. It did seem to me our defensemen, especially Merrill were too slow on the backcheck so they wound up being out of position too often. Sometimes the angle won't show the entire defense well, but I'm a fairly casual fan.

I also generally have a friend seated next to me or I might be up getting a yellow beer of some sort cause you know they only have IPA's and American style lagers at Xcel Energy Center (yes, I'm aware they have Blue Moon). I would have killed for a porter.

[AKwildkraken]

I actually thought grit was working until the refs put a stop to it by calling "penalties* on Foligno in game four, and throwing him out in game five.  I understand that the league is trying to protect against concussions,  but I think Foligno's major penalty was a result him trying to avoid contact to Faksa's head.  

After they threw Foligno out, Dallas wasn't as intimidated as they were the prior games.  

[Jon]

12 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Wow, where to start. Tony and I will have very different takes but are equally frustrated. So, I'll go chronologically with the article:

I wish we could have kept Fiala. I wish we would have moved the 3 other pieces necessary to do it.  Fiala wasn't a placeholder.  However, as we've seen with McBain, and 2 guys traded away at the deadline this year, it is very possible that Fiala did not want to stay.  This never gets addressed by Tony. It takes 2 to get the contract done and I think it is very possible and even plausible that Fiala wanted to go to a warm weather team, told Guerin this and Guerin moved him. This may even have been why Fiala never went the offersheet route, giving the Wild the opportunity to match.

Since Guerin does his negotiations in the cone of silence, and expects all agents to keep things confidential (see Talbot's agent), we will never know exactly what was said and what the circumstances were. Fiala's girlfriend/wife is a model, and it would be best if she were in a model friendly environment like Miami, LA or maybe even Tampa.  It makes sense for them to finally be in a place where they could live together from a career perspective.  

This is where we will agree the most. Arguably Vegas, definitely St. Louis and Dallas were stronger down the middle than the Wild. This is where we have lost the play in and last 3 playoff series.  We have enough to get through the regular season, but not enough to play against the top 10 teams in the league.  Specifically draws and the middle is where a "grit" team has to win, and we couldn't do it. This is a big fail. Rossi was supposed to help here, he was no help the whole season.

I am very certain that the Wild front office watched Iowa tape often on how the prospects were progressing. I only had access to the highlights, but from watching those, I saw the exact same things that Rossi did up here down there.  Rossi was gliding, not hustling, standing around a lot, not physical, trying to pick pucks out of piles while not getting involved and lacking a compete level. He was not close to being ready for an NHL roster. I saw a glimmer of hope in his final game up here and the final playoff game for Iowa, enough to think that he will be a different player next season. I don't know if he'll ever be physical, but that speed and agility was there that we could see in his jrs. highlight videos.

Our power play did not lose this series, our penalty kill did. Addison did well QBing the power play, but, this was the only thing he did well. Klingberg was not a defensive stalwart, and was directly responsible for Hintz's goal in the final game.  However, he was far more willing to use his body, leverage it against opponents, not get completely run over and get back into the play far faster than Addison can. Addison is not built for playoff hockey, and questionably built for regular season hockey. He is now fully in the Ryan Murphy category of defensemen.  

Addison doesn't even try to sell you on the fact that he's willing to try to play defense. He constantly gets clobbered behind the play and needs a moment or 2 to collect his wits.  I am fully convinced that Addison on the power play would have made 0 difference in this series.  Eriksson Ek missing from the power play is what sank this unit and likely the penalty kill.  I know Guerin had high hopes for Addison being Letang 2.0, but unless Addison comes to his RFA meeting looking visibly filled out, it is time to trade him. Some will see his points and PP tape and bite. 

In conclusion, we have a lot of centers on this team, but, really, they are truly wingers. We have an overabundance of wingers. Our talent pool has an overabundance of wingers. How do we find true centers with our cap situation? UFA is likely not an option. Somehow, Vegas found some centers in their expansion draft.  They identified some players that could thrive if given an opportunity. Their centers weren't paid like top 6 centers either.  Seattle chose to draft them. We've got to figure out a way to fill that void. Maybe, just maybe, Rossi is ready? We won't know until training camp. I'd be willing to deal him, though, if it meant getting a true top 6 center. 

An underrated storyline I think will be interesting to follow: Who is the next AHL coach? May have a direct impact on the development and continued progression of Rossi’s game.

[Jon]

4 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

How can you possibly form a reasonable opinion by watching highlights?

that’s seriously what you’re going off of?

that pretty much makes your opinion irrelevant. It’s actually laughable.

you don’t take into consideration how other teammates such as walker talk about him or even take into consideration how he was producing point wise in Iowa.

that’s pretty much all I need to hear about the soundness of your opinion on Rossi.

 

There is some merit to what he is saying though. Rossi does not have a good ‘eye-test’ resume to me either. He just doesn’t look like he belongs on the ice in the N.

Even a cut-up of highlights should give one an idea of what they can provide. Cant dismiss that completely.

Point production is not a tell-all indicator of performance. The Wild has been 100-point teams yet look abysmal in the playoffs. Same goes for Boldy and Kaprizov being shut down despite being leaders in point production. I can’t imagine a player staying very long on a team if they were to talk even remotely bad about a teammate *cough cough* Suter. So, Walker’s endorsement might need a pinch of salt.

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

How can you possibly form a reasonable opinion by watching highlights?

This is a great question. Let me explain. It's not just what's in the highlights, it's what isn't in the highlights too. Since the highlights pretty much involve scoring plays, though they were more inclusive of play this season, watching the points Rossi is putting up is a key. Another key is watching how the opponent scored.

1. A lot of Rossi's points were accumulated on the PP. He played the Zuccarello position on the PP and great amount of assists came from a cross ice pass who someone buried.  He was either gliding or standing still and really didn't do anything special, in other words, Petan could have gotten the same assist if he were in that position.
2. What rarely showed up in the highlights was Rossi grabbing the puck on his side of the red line and driving play into the other end, either with a save or a goal. This is the FU that Guerin wanted to see, and it was pretty non-existent.  A great save on the play would have shown up in the highlight package. I saw this in the final playoff game for Rossi.
3. When you watch Rossi weakly trailing an opponent who is about to score, doing essentially nothing to interrupt that opportunity, ala Addison, that raises a red flag. I get he's a C not a D, but it's about effort. 
4. Watching him battle on the wall just trying to pick the puck loose on the outside of the scrum consistently in the highlights tells me he doesn't like the contact inside the scrum. Very few times was he in that scrum. This is a little less reliable due to it being a highlight package.
5. You can compare the effort, hustle, and style with other baby Wild teammates, such as Beckman. Beckman is a much hungrier player and you can see it in his celly's. 
6. They started to show more highlights of The Wall this year. He improved in his 1st shot stop, and had to concentrate much more on sharp angle shots since he didn't usually see those in Sweden.  It took him a few months to get acclimated. Also, it showed how they used him, as for most of the year he was 1B and McIntyre was 1A. However, in the playoffs, The Wall got both starts.
7. You also can hear the announcers in the background. Simon Johansson's name started coming up late while in the offensive zone, and I would attribute this to improvement. I also felt that the Baby Wild defense had trouble boxing out in front of their net, which also tells me O'Rourke and Hunt are not ready yet. In fact, I thought O'Rourke had gone backwards from his 1st stint in Iowa. 
8. There is also a feel that you can get when you watch all of the highlights for games.  You can see different tendencies that players have, even though it's hard to see the numbers or names with the quality of the video. 

I am an untrained eye looking at this stuff, I'm sure the trained eyes were picking up a lot more than I was and probably had better quality of video. 

Jon also had a good point, a very strong undercurrent will be the new voice in Iowa. With all coaches not getting their contracts renewed, this will be an interesting development. 1 thing I think was evident is that with the influx of youth in Iowa, there will need to be a lot more teaching, better strength conditioning, and I think more 1 on 1 time with each player. That's a little weird to say as Army was known for talking a lot.

[mnfaninnc]

15 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

The last two seasons have been worst case scenario from a restock the cupboards standpoint.   Finishing high in regular season standings ensuring a late first round pick, then getting rolled in a disappointing (especially for fans) round one performance

Under normal circumstances, I'd have to agree with you here. However, I think that these last 3 drafts, and quite possibly this one, draft position will mean less than normal. The teams with the best scouting and talent evaluations will be the winners.  

It depends upon if you trust Brackett and his staff or not. 2 things played into these drafts, Covid and Russia-Ukraine. Both were outside of any players' control, but both will affect the players dramatically. 

I think what we will find, when we look back on these 4 drafts is that there was a better hit rate in the 2nd-7th rounds and a larger bust rate from the 1st rounders. Finding the players with the stronger mental fortitude will be the key, I think. 

We also can't discount that we had 2 1sts in each of the last 2 drafts, and that will help. I'd say we are due some draft luck as an organization, and if we can get 3-4 hits in each of the last 2 drafts of guys who are consistent performers at the NHL level, that will go a long way in us being successful.  

[Tony Abbott]

20 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Side note... how did that woman in the photo get the bag into the game??? haha

Honestly, the best question of the thread.

[Protec]

I'm very critical of the 2020 draft because it preceded the buyouts and really needed to produce an NHL guy ASAP. (Due to cap penalties or constraints which were obvious and only one top-6 center.) It was a deep draft and the Wild options included a handful of guys that were going to be available around 9th overall. The obvious choices were Lundell who had a Koivu-like quality which wasn't viewed as flashy but he had proven himself against men and wasn't a small center. (Classic MN - 200' player.)

Jarvis was a solid skater with speed and dynamic playmaking who was leading the WHL in scoring.

Dylan Holloway was playing at Wisconsin and was another big body who had junior hockey scoring pedigree.

Mercer was another good center option which was what the Wild needed. This guy could skate, was 6' tall, and had good potential with flashy goals for Team Canada.

The Wild used the best pick of the availability at the center position to get the smallest, least dynamic guy with underwhelming skating that doesn't play with an edge that six or seven teams passed on. Out of these five players that we discussed at length leading up to the draft, anticipating a good result with the 9th pick, Rossi is the least productive at the NHL level. In fact, he's got less NHL everything than all the picks in the top 20 from that draft with the exception of Askarov the goalie two other Russians who haven't experienced the NHL. I understand what happened and it's easier to see now. I wasn't too mad then, but at this point I would rather the Wild had any of the other players I mentioned or Shaw with a bionic-knee.

The Wild could really use another inexpensive player who has that top end talent and who doesn't require a bunch of Folignos, Reaves, etc. to provide compensatory physicality.  The Wild need to figure it out, are they grits or European Hobbits???

How many heavy-hitters do you need? The Wild were built to play physical for this playoffs but telegraphed it to the world. Dean uses them to pound the opponent with sound defensive responsibility. DeBoer sees coming a mile away. There's no deception by the Wild or clever attempt to out-smart Dallas. The Wild took the injured roster of under-earning players and tried to pound the more talented team with potent scoring. It didn't work. The Wild's lack of top-end talent depth showed. Johnston, Benn, Hitnz, Dadanov, Robertson, Seguin is pretty nice without Pavelski. Minnesota's miss on Rossi and loss of Fiala hurts the PP and depth scoring. Elite Swedish hockey mercenaries the likes of Mojo, Sundqvuisst, and Nyqvuisst combined with Reaves & Foligno is worth a shot but isn't the best way to combine skill and toughness. Dallas had a higher goal-differential all season with skill & toughness combined in each player. Minnesota really needs to get a first round pick that pays off. For three drafts now they have zero forwards from the first round picks who are in the NHL. If Rossi was Tage Thompson shot/speed/size, etc. and not yet catching on, I'd be saying, "don't rush to judgement." Anyway, I'm not saying that for the Wild. I'm saying get a eff'n forward in the 1st round who can play in the NHL!!!

It's pretty important cause they're not available via trade which the Wild have no money for anyway. Either you trade some big package this off-season and get a top center or you gotta wait. Rossi isn't gonna waltz in after next year's pre-season and dominate centers from COL, DAL, STL, NSH, or WPG. The Wild are in a bad spot without Ek. That's never been more obvious.

P.S. Do the stupid marketing crap in October if you're gonna try to boast which is = to being too big for your britches. Then just do the hype in April around the seats and playoff towels and the experience stuff. Don't eff-up and set the stage for an epic embarrassment.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Protec

[Tony Abbott]

The Rossi stuff is such hindsight. Lundell is the only guy that was legit in the conversation at 9.

[Tony Abbott]

And, like... Rossi's been really good in professional hockey since then??? He's just getting trashed because of less than 300 NHL minutes that he didn't succeed at. It's nuts how Rossi seems to break so many people's brains. If he was doing what he did in the AHL in the KHL, or in Sweden, people would be hyped over the moon for him. But doing it in the AHL is bad because he couldn't work his way up from the fourth line?

[Jon]

One thing is clear to me. If the Minnesota Wild do not give significant minutes for their younger players to play, there must be organizational changes. Whoever makes those decisions needs to go, be it Dean or whoever is responsible.

[WheelSnipeCelly]

Something that's super interesting and polarizing is where the Wild rank in all-time standings (since joining the league in 2000-01) for the regular season (5th) vs. the playoffs (30th — doesn't include the Kraken):

• Regular Season:
  • .558 PTS%
  • Tied for 5th place (with the Nashville Predators)
  • Only the Golden Knights, Canadiens, Flyers and Bruins rank higher
• Playoffs:
  • .357 PTS%
  • Ranked 30th
  • Only the Arizona Coyotes rank lower

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_all-time_NHL_standings

Definitely hopeful for the future of this team after the buyouts era, but just let that sink in.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

And, like... Rossi's been really good in professional hockey since then??? He's just getting trashed because of less than 300 NHL minutes that he didn't succeed at. It's nuts how Rossi seems to break so many people's brains. If he was doing what he did in the AHL in the KHL, or in Sweden, people would be hyped over the moon for him. But doing it in the AHL is bad because he couldn't work his way up from the fourth line?

Doing what he's doing? Is this just looking at a stat sheet? 

The eye test, even in highlight packages shows how Rossi was getting his points. They weren't from driving play and backing off defenders, they were gimmes on the PP. Rossi has, at this point, a track record of lack of hustle, lack of compete, gliding, standing still, and weak on board battles. 

Unlike Protec, I still think he's redeemable. At the very end of the season something clicked or changed with him. The mind is the last thing to heal, and my theory is that he was scared to cut loose. He finally did those last few games.  If he comes up here next season and plays that way consistently, he will be good. If he regresses again, we've got a problem.

I don't believe that he was such a bad choice by Brackett, but we had unfortunate luck with him in the Covid scene. At the draft, this is not hindsight, I was advocating for Lundell. I stated he was like Koivu, but his offense was 2 years ahead of Koivu's. Getting a Koivu with better offense would have been a perfect fit for this organization and I was rooting for that one.  Some things are not coachable, size is one of those things. Lundell's body type was a much better transition to playing against men than Rossi's was.

People were claiming in the debate of who to draft that Lundell had no offense. If you look at his offensive numbers, they weren't pretty, but were from a different league and needed context. If you compared them side by side with Koivu, you then could understand where he was at.  He appears to have a better shot and at least equal playmaking. He and Ek would have been a nice 1-2 punch to send out in games. 

Now, in my context, I never thought Rossi would drop and he'd be gone in the top 5, so I didn't anticipate him being available at 9, but I was still hoping we'd take Lundell. Incidentally, this was just as Ek was starting to find his offense. Not many trusted he would be a reliable offensive producer like he's been.  I could see the same pain in recommending and debating Lundell. We wanted offense. Rossi seemed to be better at that aspect, but projected out, the size thing was somewhat overlooked by most.

[Tony Abbott]

I've watched and tracked full games. He's very good in transition, and excellent at finding soft spots around the net to strike at. I don't really care how you look generating scoring chances. They're there, he gets them, and he's very effective. He gets a bit stronger, like a lot of 21-year-olds need to do, gets a bit more assertive, gets better opportunities, that stuff is going to play.

[mnfaninnc]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:19 PM, Tony Abbott said:

I don't really care how you look generating scoring chances. They're there, he gets them, and he's very effective.

I'd have to agree with you in the N, but in the A, style points matter. Some things don't translate when you move up a league, and the gliding, standing still, soft passes, and lack of compete level simply do not translate. 

Driving play, darting in and out of traffic, splitting defenders and using that acceleration, and competing hard all translate to the next level. It doesn't seem like you're saying that. 

Good in transition sounds like he picks up a loose puck someone else knocked away and started up the ice with it, passing it off before gaining the zone. It doesn't sound like tracking someone down, stripping them of the puck, turning up the ice and leading the charge into the zone. I get that it's a team game, but Rossi's just got to work harder in the compete areas. His reputation is as a 200' player, yet, the eye test doesn't show that, it shows a lot of stick checks and gliding.

[Protec]

We'll find out. 

Let's see what GMBG thinks as they go through the Summer. Dumba & Gus should be on the list for offers since Johansson signed already. After that, who gets traded or signed before camp. Then who makes the team?

Rossi should be better right? Yeah I would think so. By how much? Will he be better than Steel or Jost? Better than Walker or Dewar? I hope so. 9th overall when other teams have guys on their playoff teams still playing who were picked after Rossi it sure does make ya wonder if the Wild had just stuck to their plan of taking the best guy from the group that was "supposed" to be available. A lot of teams passed on Rossi. Brackett has not been proven right yet. In fact, the evidence shows taking any of the next 4-5 centers taken after Rossi woulda been better. As of now. Therefore over the long run, unless those other players quit hockey or fizzle out, their value to their club will be greater unless Rossi trajectory goes exponential.